User talk:Foxgloved

Blaire White / pronoun usage

Hi, I noticed that you have changed all of the pronouns on Blaire_White's wikipedia page from "she" to "he," and that you have repeatedly re-inserted these edits after they were removed. I don't want to make assumptions about your intentions or your level of familiarity with wikipedia's coverage of this issue. However, biographical articles are expected to use the pronouns consistent with a person's identity. See Wikipedia:Gender_identity. The article has been repaired for a third time today - please refrain from editing it again, as this could be considered either Disruptive editing or vandalism. If it continues, I will need to forward this to a formal dispute resolution process. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Foxgloved (talk • contribs) 19:19, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reaching out. I found Wikipedia:Gender_identity after I first made my edits. However, that page is an essay, not a policy or a guideline. It does not represent an editorial consensus. As such, my edits certainly cannot be considered vandalistic. Meanwhile, my edits are no more disruptive than those editors who insist upon reverting mine for ideological reasons. You'll notice that they immediately attributed my edits to "transphobia," which is an ideologically loaded term. Snoopydaniels (talk) 19:59, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I will refrain from making further edits to the paste unless I don't hear from you for a few days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snoopydaniels (talk • contribs) 20:08, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style section on identity for official guidelines on this issue. The talk page for trans woman Laverne Cox shows a history of problems with the same issue, where it has been treated as vandalism. - Robin Foxgloved (talk) 20:33, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: Blaire_White's talk page also has a header instructing editors to use female pronouns. Foxgloved (talk) 20:48, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The link you provided just takes me to a generic article about style guides. And you just added that header to the talk page about female pronouns. It is not binding upon me or any other editors. Unless you can provide me with an actual Wikipedia policy or guideline requiring the use of the subject's preferred pronouns, then I will continue to insist that this and all similar articles use factual pronouns. Wikipedia is an **encyclopedia**, not a vehicle for people to live out their subjective fantasies. Snoopydaniels (talk) 23:56, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That was a typo; I have fixed the link so it redirects to the official Wikipedia:Manual of Style. I did not add that header to Blaire's talk page or any other. As I stated, your edits are in violation of Wikipedia policy and practice on biographies of trans people. Foxgloved (talk) 14:19, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As Foxgloved had posted to BLP/N, I want to point out MOS:GENDERID, which states "Give precedence to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources.". --Masem (t) 14:35, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That style guideline clearly conflicts with to the *policy* document Wikipedia: What Wikipedia is not with respect to WP:NOTPROPAGANDA. The Wikipedia article on Propaganda summarizes propaganda thusly:

Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.

Snoopydaniels (talk) 16:45, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Snoopydaniels: Are you claiming that every source on that page is propaganda? All reliable sources I can find discussing White use she/her pronouns and identify her as a transgender woman. This is also how she identifies. Continuing to change the pronouns on this article is in violation of our policies on reliable sourcing and goes against how we write biographies of trans people on Wikipedia, and won't be tolerated. GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:57, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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16:02, 16 April 2018 (UTC)