Talk:The Wandering Earth

Suggestion

Hi, User:Chang Kaishen, User:Mariogoods, User:Cirolchou, User:Charlotte2018, User:Getareu8, I think this below subject (Paragraph) could be noted in this Article and will be useful for reader. What's your comment? Forest90 (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

According to statistics, Wandering Earth broke the record between China's film. This film released over the holiday season, lunar new year , and earned more than 2 Billion Yuan (232 Million Euro) in six days.

"My film was successful but I don't want to speak about only one successed film and China sci-fi move could be find a new way for being better in 2019" The Movie director, Frant Gwo told to the China.org.cn

Liu Cixin, the author of the novel Wandering Earth said to the state broadcaster CCTV, "Chinese studios have no interest to invest in sci-fi films. US sci-fi films audiences have trust but this trust between audiences and China sci-fi movie haven't been exist and this is the main difference between Chinese and US sci-fi films. He said it is challenge because this trust must build between producers, investors and the audience until people have faith in a Chinese sci-fi movie.

I quickly checked the sentences and I found it no obvious problem. Also, I think they are useful to improve this article.Mariogoods (talk) 01:15, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Before improving the article, looking at film GA such as Iron Man 3 is helpful. (Although it is not relevant to the discussion)Mariogoods (talk) 01:52, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Sources

Article protection

@Wraper11, Lester1231, and DannyS712: I have locked the article for two days so that you all can come to this talk page and discuss your differences and reach a consensus. Further edit warring could lead to blocks from editing. Remember that edit warring is against Wikipedia’s rules even if you are right. -- MelanieN (talk) 03:43, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Messed up the ping. User:Wraper11, User:Lester1231, and User:DannyS712, this means you.-- MelanieN (talk) 03:47, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

@MelanieN: I have made 1 set of 2 edits, and since then have tried to make it clear that I don't want to be involved. I offered to help with the issue of composer vs additional composer, because I know some Chinese, but I do not want to be involved in the dispute about the coverage of the music - I have made it clear that I have no strong feelings either way. Thanks for the ping, but I don't intend to edit the article again - @Wraper11 and Lester1231: please use this opportunity to discuss the coverage. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 03:55, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712 and MelanieN: Thanks Danny and MelanieN! My opinion is clear here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DannyS712#Protecting_the_Wandering_Earth_Page ), that I have no problem with Liu Tao is the additiona composer, and I didn't make any change since MTIME changed the title to Liu. But In order to keep the objectivity of The Wandering Earth page, I think the music cpoying issue must be metioned in The Wandering Earth page since the media report it, and there has been large discussion in China. Also, as the film crew, user "Wraper11" removed the music copying issue, the negative news to the film, I don't think that is a RIGHT behavior the The Wandering Earth page. I also agree with user:DannyS712 to use "trace of suspected mass imitation" instead of "direct copy" in the description of music copying issue since some of the cues contain the similar structure, similar key, similar rythm, similar BPM, similar arrangment, similar melody and similar musical source. Thanks again!-- Lester1231 (talk) 05:50, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

i want to point out that I didn't suggest using "trace of suspected mass imitation" - that's what that source said, which did not support the claim of "direct copy" in the article. I don't mind if its used in the article or not, but Lester1231, please don't "agree with me" about an idea I never agreed to. --DannyS712 (talk) 05:59, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712 and MelanieN:Sorry, that's not the point, the point is just wether the dispute of music copying issue should be keep on The Wandering Earth page, my opinion is yes, and the film crew coundn't remove the music copying issue. Thanks.-- Lester1231 (talk) 09:03, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

@MelanieN, DannyS712, and Lester1231: I strive to keep the objectivity of the page on Wikipedia, and here're a few reasons why Lester1231's words of copying issues should not be added to the page:

1. The sources Lester1231 cite are not reliable sources, because his sources are self-media or BBS. According to: [WikipediaReliableSources]

"Self-published sources (online and paper) Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book and claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published media are largely not acceptable."

Soundtrack magazine is not an official media but a self-media at wechat platform(the Chinese self-media platform where people publish their own articles, and its known to have issues of misinformation and not be reliable. More about wechat platform self-media's misinformation: how-self-media-in-china-has-become-a-hub-for-misinformation). The other source tieba.baidu.com is a BBS/forum at Baidu which is just one of many Chinese BBS/forums and Wiki's rules for reliable sources clearly says: "Self-published book...Internet forums are all examples of self-published media."

Both his sources are not reliable sources.

2. The self-media "soundtrack magazine" is created/operated by Lester1231 himself at the wechat Chinese self-media platform. The intention he kept adding the changes during the editing warring by citing from his own self-press is questionable. I hope he won't come back using another ID to do similar changes.

3. Let's look at his source the self-media "soundtrack magazine" article, the main part is a video comparing the wandering earth music to some of Hans Zimmer music. But in that video, the videomaker changed wandering earth music by modulating its key signatures, beats per minute, music panning and other elements. So technically it's not the music of wandering earth anymore, but they still do the comparison and say such wandering earth music (which is modulated/modified from the original) is mass imitation or copying of Hans music, making this source not reliable even more. Wraper11 (talk) 22:50, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

@MelanieN: That's ridiculous, all I know about the Soundtrack Magazine is a media company has their own film music journalists witch has a great relationship with Chinese and Hollywood film composers like Alexandre Desplat, Howard Shore, John Powell and many others, just check their offical page of Facebook please, it is not a somthing "self-media" he called, Wechat is just a majar platform of distribution in China. I'm also just a film music fan in China, a eidtor cared about the film Wandering Earth. However, user "Wraper11" said he is a "offical film crew", I have no interets to accuse a guy I don't know, just check this screenshot please, he has no rights to remove anything from the page, thanks! https://www.dropbox.com/s/qu9frk90rnlsiuv/Wraper11.jpg -- Lester1231 (talk) 02:30, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Everyone. I am a Chinese. 我可以看中文. Wechat is a social network media. Lester1231's source or the soundtrack magazine is a Wechat self-media (微信自媒体). It does not qualify the reliable sources definition and should not be considered as sources. 04:36, 7 March 2019 (UTC)Kaby (talk)

@MelanieN:I'm tired to explain wether the Soundtrack Magazine in China is a "self-media" or not, all the reasons can be seen above. Also, the “Weibo Movie (verified as the OFFICAL Weibo Movie account ,it is the official film focused source runs by Sina Weibo, and can be considered a reliable and verified source in China.)” also reported this issue, just check here please https://weibo.com/3506400592/Hg1Hj7jWS . Btw, Wechat is NOT a social network media, it just a IM app, and a news distribution, Soundtrack Magazine running on Wechat is just like New York Times and Variety running on Line, Facebook and Twitter. Thanks! -- Lester1231 (talk) 05:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

No kidding me, I searched it and found that so-called "Soundtrack Magazine" describe itself as “国内最权威、最专业的影视游戏音乐自媒体” ("The most authoritative and professional video game and music self-media in the nation (China)"). Most self-medias are unreliable. Also, Weibo, like Twitter, should not be considered as reliable source in the first place. --云间守望 - (Talk with WQL) 12:52, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, the "Soundtrack Magazine" is running by a company NOT a single user, as I know, this platform contains the film music journalists from International Film Music Critics Association, the definition of "self-media" in the slogan is quite diffrernt from the "self-media" as Wiki defined, it just wanna show the different with the traditional media like TV, newspaper I think. How can a "self-media" as Wiki defined and running by someone held a meeting with Mr. Alexandre Desplat? -- Lester1231 (talk) 14:26, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

"it just wanna show the different with the traditional media like TV, newspaper I think." Such kind of self-published content should not be trusted. Please provide the evidence that the author him/herself is a member of the Association, so we can verify it. --云间守望 - (Talk with WQL) 16:07, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Also, I found the attribution at the article's bottom. I tried to find who he is, but failed. --云间守望 - (Talk with WQL) 16:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Gorath

The article is locked at the moment but hopefully an editor can add in the controversy that the movie is facing. Most of the articles regarding this issue are rapidly being deleted in China by the government. Most truth bearing critical articles are being deleted by the state. Hopefully wiki can include this to be fair based.

Even though in the Chinese internet, The Wandering Earth is praised for making a breakthrough in China’s sci-fi genre, the movie has been accused of plagiarizing 1962 Japanese film Gorath. Directed by the director of Godzilla, the movie is set in Tokyo the year 1980 and a huge planet is on course to collide with Earth in 45 days. The world teams up to find a solution and build a giant ejector in the South Pole to help Earth depart its original track. The two movies bear many similarities in terms of escaping objects from outer space and building large machinery to help Earth deviate from its path.

Many articles were written and deleted, and even mentions of this on social media and movie reviews were intentionally removed because this movie is a state backed first blockbuster science fiction movie.

Hopefully the Chinese won't come and mess with the page if someone adds in this to the page. Vivogram (talk) 14:20, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Vivogram, and thanks for your input. There is a discussion above about whether the music is plagiarized; this adds a new dimension. Can you supply any links to published sources about this Gorath allegation? -- MelanieN (talk) 16:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Help needed

@Epicgenius, OhanaUnited, and Deryck Chan: Hello! Please excuse the ping, but this page needs some input and possibly supervision from Wikipedians who know Chinese and can read and evaluate sources. I didn’t intend to get involved in the content here, but people keep addressing their comments to me. I am having trouble following the issues. I had locked the article because of edit warring about whether to include allegations that some of the music for this film was copied directly from other films.[1] Two sources were provided; there is argument here at the talk page about whether the sources are reliable. Now a new allegation has been raised, without sources, that the movie plagiarizes a Japanese film. (If we can’t find sources in English or Chinese there might be some in Japanese.) This movie, The Wandering Earth, is a huge deal in China, and it is entirely possible that there might be attempts here at the talk page to keep anything negative out of this article (I notice one brand-new user making their very first edit here). If any of you can take a look at this article and provide some input it would be greatly appreciated. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:56, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

• Hi, thanks for reaching out. Here's my assessment of the situation:
  1. The two links go to the same content. The first link goes to a 影乐志 (Soundtrack Magazine) article that criticises the music in the film. The second link goes to an archive copy of the same article on a forum website.
  2. I don't have the expertise to decide whether Soundtrack Magazine should be treated as a reliable source. Taking the article at face value, I have no reason to suspect any bad faith about the article or the online magazine.
  3. I disagree with Lester1231's text which stated that music in this movie "were apparently copied directly from some of Hans Zimmer's scores". The cited article analysed music in The Wandering Earth and compared it to Hollywood soundtracks by Hans Zimmer and others. The article noticed similarities but did not go so far as claiming illegal plagiarism in this case, though it did mention past legal cases where songwriters were heavily penalised for copying Zimmer's works. The article concluded that music in The Wandering Earth was heavily influenced by Zimmer's style and sought to emulate it, resulting in music that lacked original creativity and that felt awkward in some scenes.

  I hope that helps. Deryck C. 17:24, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

@Deryck Chan I did some research and I found the so-called "soundtrack magazine" has a history of personal attack to wandering earth composer Roc Chen(阿鲲) in the past. So I think that article is in bad faith. 哈利波菜 is the operator of soundtrack magazine (see: https://www.douban.com/note/354037030/?type=like) and also have a history of personal attack to composer Roc Chen:

哈利波菜 weibo accuse Roc Chen is only a shoe lifter in Kung Fu Panda3: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v6zxwigr5fop2to/IMG_6978.PNG?dl=0

And here's Roc Chen's weibo photo showing he is doing the recording for Kung Fu Panda 3 with the Kung Fu Panda 3 official logo/poster on the right https://www.dropbox.com/s/46kdk9u1uow8fve/Screen%20Shot%202019-03-07%20at%2011.22.52%20AM.png?dl=0 The Imdb page also confirm's Roc Chen official title: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2267968/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm Thus proving Lester1231哈利波菜 is totally slandering Roc Chen.

Another evidence of "soundtrack magazine" personal attack Roc Chen https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/xO_smYN9BLgo17_EpEX5uA

Thus I believe soundtrack magazine's article is not in good faith and can not be trusted as a reliable source. Wraper11 (talk) 19:24, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, Deryck! Quite aside from the "reliable or not" question: if indeed Soundtrack is the ONLY source for this allegation, I think we would have to leave it out, wouldn't we? Controversial or negative material is supposed to need multiple sources. -- MelanieN (talk) 20:08, 7 March 2019 (UTC)