User talk:Deryck Chan

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I hang around casually, and edit when something interesting comes up.

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2 September 2015

G K Bharad Institute of Engineering[edit]

I notice that you deleted G K Bharad Institute of Engineering under A7. I just want to remind you that A7 does not apply to educational institutions. —teb728 t c 10:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Happy adminship birthday![edit]

Wikipedia Administrator.svg Wishing Deryck Chan a very happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! --George (Talk · Contribs · CentralAuth · Log) 16:30, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

closing of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robey Reed[edit]

Can you please explain to me why you closed this AfD as "no consensus" when they only keep vote was the article's creator and four named editors voted to delete it? I understand ignoring the IPs, but 4-1 with no one except the article's creator voting to keep the article seems like a consensus to me. Using that reasoning, there are a number of martial arts articles being discussed at AfD created by the same editor that would be kept simply because he keeps making the same points repeatedly, even though no one else agrees with him. I also don't understand why you closed a discussion on March 5 that was just relisted on March 3. Papaursa (talk) 00:08, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I would like to add a Me Too here - this closure seems unusual to say the least.Peter Rehse (talk) 08:50, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Replied on User talk:Papaursa. Deryck C. 09:13, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
commentRobey Reed, Odell Terry, and Ernest R Smith were all subjects of independent articles and received medals in multiple black belt divisions. Robey Reed was also a co-founder of a significant Judo Organization. CrazyAces489 (talk) 11:04, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
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They keep stating it is passing mentions, but a quick look at the references for Robey Reed show that it isn't. There is a whole page article on him here. [1]. Which isn't a passing mention.CrazyAces489 (talk) 00:32, 7 March 2015 (UTC)


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Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Plowback retained earnings 2[edit]

Allow me to preface what I'm about to say by assuring you that I don't intend to take your closure to DRV as it would be unseemly at this point. If you refuse to modify your closure after you read this message, I will simply start another RfD in two months.

There are a few things you said in your closing statement that I don't think accurately reflect what was said during the discussion.

First, there was no disagreement as to the correctness of the phrase "plowback retained earnings" to speak of. It was demonstrated that the phrase simply doesn't exist outside Wikipedia. It was also demonstrated that the redirect is redundant and not a plausible search term. None of these facts were ever contested and as such there was no need for you, the closing admin whose role was to assess the consensus, to consider any "external evidence" when making said assessment.

Let's now discuss the "redirect X is unambiguous and thus should be kept" argument. I will explain why it's invalid using a simple analogy. Severe copyright violations, as you know, are often sufficient reason to speedy-delete an article. Their absence, however, is never sufficient to keep an article taken to AfD; that an article should contain no copyright violations is just something we take for granted. Same with redirects, if they're ambiguous, that's a good enough reason to delete/disambiguate them, but if they're not ambiguous, it just means we won't delete/disambiguate them because of their ambiguity as none is present, nothing more.

If I were to say that redirects must be unambiguous, or if I were to say that article pages on Wikipedia must not contain copyright violations, I would be stating the obvious. If I were to say that redirects, if ambiguous, should be deleted or disambiguated, or if I were to say that article pages that contain copyright violations where there is no non-infringing content on the page worth saving should be deleted, I would also be stating the obvious. However, if I were to say that every unambiguous redirect as well as every article that contains no copyright violations must be kept, I would be making a patently false statement.

Now let's look at the "redirect X is useful and thus should be kept" argument. It is obviously a valid, possibly even RfD-terminating, argument to make, but only if it is followed by a reasonable explanation of why the person making it thinks the redirect is useful. The editor who described Plowback retained earnings as useful in both of its RfDs was given a grand total of approximately three months to explain why s/he considered the redirect useful. Such explanation was directly requested twice, but was never provided.

If I were to say that useful redirects shouldn't be deleted, or if I were to say that articles on notable subjects shouldn't be deleted, I would be stating the obvious. However, if I were to say that every redirect that has ever been described as useful should be kept, or if I were to say that every article on a subject that has ever been described as notable should be kept, I would be making a patently false statement.

If we were to accept that an unsubstantiated assertion of usefulness/notability is sufficient to prevent a redirect/an article from being deleted, we could just as well shut RfD/AfD down, as one disruptive editor with sufficient amount of free time on his/her hands would be able to effectively prevent any redirect/article from being deleted through simply making unsubstantiated assertions of usefulness/notability over and over. Common sense would dictate that this simply isn't the way to go.

The editors !voting in favor of keeping the redirect said quite a bit, but none of it had a basis in either common sense or any of our content policies, and they failed to refute any of the points made by the editors !voting in favor of deleting the redirect. Please consider modifying your closing statement/decision to reflect that, and thank you for taking the time to close this rather contentious debate.

If you're planning to respond to this message, please do so here as I prefer to keep my conversations confined to one venue whenever possible. Thank you. Iaritmioawp (talk) 21:01, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

@Iaritmioawp: Actually, for the most part, I agree with what you say about usefulness and ambiguity. However, sufficiently many established editors have read your argument and remain unconvinced. They argued for keeping the redirect anyway; to them, their common sense and their interpretation of content policies led them to that conclusion. I felt that if I closed the RfD as either "keep" or "delete", that would be an admin decision rather than the enactment of a consensus. Wikipedia's system doesn't care whether someone's right. It only cares about whether they can convince enough people to achieve a rough consensus. Deryck C. 07:23, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
As per Wikipedia:Closing discussions#Consensus, the closer is to discard irrelevant arguments. That an argument was presented by an established editor in no way affects its relevance, validity, or weight. An argument either stands or falls on its own merits.
If the closing administrator has a good-faith belief that an argument used by editor X has been convincingly refuted by editor Y, the closing administrator can and should discard that argument. If the closing administrator has a good-faith belief that an argument used by editor X has been convincingly demonstrated to be invalid by editor Y, the closing administrator can and should discard that argument.
Editor X's acknowledgement that his/her argument was refuted or proven to be invalid is not required. The boldface word in front of an editor's comment is the least important portion of said comment. Not only that, but the closing administrator should typically pay no heed whatsoever to who said what; deletion discussions should be read as if they were a list of arguments compiled by only one person and the outcome should be determined based on the quality of the arguments given on the various sides of an issue, as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy where the "as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy" part could be expanded to say "as viewed through the lens of Wikipedia policy by the closing editor alone."
The closer must not forget that the quality of arguments has nothing to do with either the quality or the quantity of the editors who present them. I was about to suggest that you take a look at this closure of a contentious RfD to see an excellent example of all of the above put into practice, but then I realized that you participated in that RfD and are thus no doubt already familiar with it. Iaritmioawp (talk) 22:11, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
I guess I simply perceive the "delete" arguments to be less overwhelmingly convincing then you perceive them to be. I've been chastised many times for slipping too much of my own judgement into XfD closures so perhaps my thresholds for discounting comments as irrelevant are higher than you expect. Deryck C. 11:40, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree that comments should not be discounted lightly, but the fact of the matter is that during the course of this particular discussion all the "keep" arguments were refuted whereas most of the "delete" arguments weren't even addressed. To me, it's nothing but a textbook example of a one-sided debate where a very clear WP:CONSENSUS was formed.
While I agree that we should be careful not to slip too much of our own judgement into XfD closures, I'd like to point out that we should be even more careful not to give in to the other extreme, as that inevitably results in reducing the assessment of consensus to a head-counting exercise. Iaritmioawp (talk) 22:04, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
That you had the last word in every single conversation in that RfD doesn't mean you have refuted all the "keep" arguments... Deryck C. 22:57, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
I did not have "the last word in every single conversation in that RfD," which can be easily verified by taking a quick look at that RfD—and I agree that it wouldn't matter if I did. What matters is that all of the arguments for keeping the redirect were refuted and most of the arguments for deleting the redirect weren't as much as addressed.
What arguments in favor of keeping the redirect do you not consider to have been convincingly refuted—the unsubstantiated and thus irrelevant assertion of its usefulness, or the assertion that the redirect's unambiguity is sufficient to invalidate any argument that can be presented in favor of its deletion? If it's the latter, perhaps it would've made more sense to make a statement to that effect and close the discussion as "keep." Iaritmioawp (talk) 23:27, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Administrator Barnstar Hires.png The Admin's Barnstar
I can't remember the last time there was no backlog at RfD. This probably won't last very long either, but it feels great, and I really appreciate your getting involved there. BDD (talk) 13:47, 5 May 2015 (UTC)


This article had 28 edits in April, compared to 42 for Mother's Day which is not protected. Easter does not have a history of vandalism outside Lent. I don't think a case can be made for protection at this time. (talk) 09:17, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Courcelles: any thoughts? Deryck C. 09:20, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I request protection of the essay article[edit]

The article Essay has persisting vandalism lasting years and years and is a very high target for vandalism. Please can you semi-protect the essay article? Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 23:42, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Consider Ostrich and Pen[edit]

Have you seen the protection log for Ostrich yet? Sometimes, there was protection for that article for longer than 1 month, such as what Philippe did.

Also, the Pen article is an ongoing target for vandalism, even in the past year. Almost all 500 past edits were just vandalism. Not one user made constructive edits other than reverting vandalism, and had made ClueBot NG get involved multiple times. Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 10:42, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

ClueBot NG is a robot so I really won't worry about him... Deryck C. 11:33, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
Never mind about the ClueBot NG, that was only my opinion, but however, no edits were constructive in the Pen article. Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 20:37, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
But part of the fun of Wikipedia is for random passerbys to find out that they can edit Wikipedia live and graffiti on pages, only to realise our robots are smart enough to undo the graffiti automatically! Deryck C. 07:33, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Sri Lanka[edit]

You forgot to actually semi-protect the page. You just move-protected it. —Jeremy v^_^v Bori! 17:53, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

(del/undel) 2015-05-27T17:56:41 Jackmcbarn (talk | contribs | block) changed protection level of Sri Lanka‎ ‎[edit=autoconfirmed] (expires 17:56, 27 November 2015 (UTC)) (protect the right action) (hist | change)
@Jéské Couriano: Jackmcbarn fixed my mistake. Thank him. :) Deryck C. 07:36, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


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cyberpowerChat:Online 14:26, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Again.—cyberpowerChat:Online 14:40, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Cytherea mova[edit]

Please return this article to its longstanding title until/unless the move request is properly closed accordingly. The proposer of the contested move is not allowed to close the discussion and implement their proposal; that requires an uninvolved editor -- and, in light of the wide controversy, an admin close. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 13:49, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for helping at CFD[edit]

Thanks for closing a discussion from WP:CFDAC. ([2]) You did great! – Fayenatic London 18:35, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Full Protection[edit]

Can you fully protect my userpage and my template I created for my userpage (Template:Makedonija(User:Makedonija)). If the template is invalid and requires deletion, undo this edit and then full protect. Last time you semi protected it but I have not been active there was still an edit to the page, so now I want it fully protected. Yours truly, Macedonia (talk) 11:06, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

ETO Sydney[edit]

Hell Deryck could you help take a look into the article for ETO Sydney? There was a AFD back in early April and the result was merge into HKETO. But there wasn't any discussion for one and a half months. When I took a be bold approach and work on actual content, User:LibStar came around and kill the article by turning it into a redirect while discarding all the content. He/she did nothing to move the content forward to the destination article. IMO that wasn't a merger operation. (talk) 01:36, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I have not discarded all content but added to the HKETO here. LibStar (talk) 01:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
You discarded all content until I warned you about that. Yet still you've dumped more than half of the content. (talk) 01:42, 18 June 2015 (UTC)y
when something is merged, usually quite a bit of content goes. you really want the article retained then set up a discussion at WP:RFD. LibStar (talk) 01:43, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Did you pay any attention to the headnote? (talk) 01:57, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

If you really want the entire article retained then please set up a discussion at WP:RFD. LibStar (talk) 01:58, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

It's meaningless to act like a cassette player and repeat the same line-to-take again and again. Please hang on with the merger operation and refrain from discarding actual content. Be polite and civil, and use proper indents and capitalisation. Thanks. (talk) 02:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Deryck, you'd be interested in knowing that (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) has been blocked for sockpuppetry Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Instantnood. LibStar (talk) 07:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

@LibStar: Do you mean WP:DRV? Deryck C. 10:28, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
it's rather late for a deletion review. however, this IP has now disappeared, given someone has pointed out s/he is a sock avoiding a ban. LibStar (talk) 06:59, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
@LibStar: Actually you're right. Because it was a merge rather than a delete, the first step of action need not be DRV. I don't think there's such a thing as "too late for DRV" though. Deryck C. 08:30, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Don't think DRV is necessary in this particular case. The talk page is good enough. (talk) 11:28, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
LibStar is correct. Some content is merged and page history is preserved. Since the redirect / merge was the result of an AfD, an RfD or DRV will be necessary to establish the legitimacy to restore the article. Deryck C. 05:43, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
May I know what do you mean by "some content"? (talk) 12:46, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
This much, as LibStar pointed out above. Stop beating the dead horse. Deryck C. 12:59, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
That's a very small proportion.. (talk) 16:51, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

another single purpose editor IP curiously popped up trying again to revert the the redirect. As a result the page is now semi protected. LibStar (talk) 06:28, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

You've got mail[edit]

Hello, Deryck Chan. Please check your email – you've got mail!
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-- Ktsquare (talk) 01:17, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Conflict of interest[edit]

I don't know you verz well because zou are new on the scene at RfD.

I just wanted to thank you for zour well considered contributions at Rfd. I hope you will become a regular there. We are a bunch of eccentrics who care about things to make the enczclopaedia not only that anyone can edit but anyone can read. It is a bit of a backwater, I know, I translate some French articles and occasisonally Hungarian articles, but something is better than nothing.

Your honesty is something to respect, I think. We shall not always agree, but we shall know why.

Now get a proper surname please because tht "Ck" at the back really hurts my Hungarian keyboard :)

Si Trew (talk) 09:03, 22 June 2015 (UTC)


Hi. It's nice to get a question about participating in Wikimania and not just organising a Wikimania!

The idea for Hong Kong to host a Wikimania has been suggested since we hosted the Chinese Wikimedia Conference 2006, and the intention for Hong Kong to bid for Wikimania 2013 was conceived at Wikimania 2011. Preparations for the bid began in late 2011 and the formal bidding process was in early 2012. Hong Kong was announced as the winning bid in May 2012, which gave us 15 months to organise the conference.

In terms of participation, it is not necessary at all to be "known to communities" before you attend Wikimania. Actually, attending Wikimania is the best way to make yourself known to the wider Wikimedia community. However, Wikimania is a very intense conference. In order to make the best out of Wikimania, I generally recommend new participants to have been editing a Wikimedia project for a year before attending Wikimania. If there's a local meetup nearby, it will be a good idea to attend it to get a general feel of offline Wikimedia events.

Don't let anything dissuade you though. Wikimania is an awesome conference, so the above are just some advice on how to prepare yourself so you can get the best out of Wikimania. If you want to go and have the time and money to travel there, just do it! Deryck C. 19:50, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

(Carrying on from email) I'm not sure what are your concerns. I agree that there is a significant threshold of entry for Wikimania organisers (and rightly so), but there is no barrier for anyone to become a participant. I was only trying to give some advice to help people enjoy Wikimania as much as they can. In fact, at every Wikimania there has been local people who had never edited Wikipedia and simply joined Wikimania because they were interested. Deryck C. 16:18, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
I'd prefer to have this conversation on-wiki so that other Wikimedians may benefit from it. Attending Wikimania is as simple as "apply, buy the flight tickets and go". Every year, there are CentralNotices (banners on every Wikimedia site) to encourage people to register for Wikimania. There's also a central page, m:Wikimania, where you can find information about Wikimanias in general. For local Wikimedia gatherings, see m:Meetup. Deryck C. 19:22, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
As you have decided to post on my talk page which is the talk page for discussing encyclopedic stuff, I would assume you are fine to receive a reply on your talk page on English Wikipedia. First of all, although getting a reply about past wikimania's from an attendee is good, you mistook my question(s), that were the time managements of a prospective attendee or organizer. As you are frank on answering questions overtly about wikimania, I just notice a bit of grammatical wording - 'I'm not sure what are your concerns' - that may be typical of a writer from an Asian background, therefore I assume you may not understand fully my questions. How early is the CentralNotice available online so prospective attendees can arrange their time ? Would attending local meetup provide quicker information about organizing and/or attending wikimania ? -- Ktsquare (talk) 19:46, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
@Ktsquare: Typically, the CentralNotice will be on for a few weeks as Wikimania registration opens. I think the Wikimania 2015 CentralNotice was up and is now taken down, but registration is still open. The quickest way to get information about Wikimania is to subscribe to mail:wikimania-l. Attending local meetups will give you a good idea of what offline Wikimedia events are like, because Wikimania is basically a very big meetup. Deryck C. 22:11, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Chan (2015) wrote, "The idea for Hong Kong to host a Wikimania has been suggested since we hosted the Chinese Wikimedia Conference 2006, and the intention for Hong Kong to bid for Wikimania 2013 was conceived at Wikimania 2011. Preparations for the bid began in late 2011 and the formal bidding process was in early 2012. Hong Kong was announced as the winning bid in May 2012, which gave us 15 months to organise the conference." and, "Attending local meetups will give you a good idea of what offline Wikimedia events are like, because Wikimania is basically a very big meetup." If I had known this perspective ahead of time in early 2005 which had already been three years after my registration at Wikipediae, I would not have waited until today to ask you about Wikimania. In retrospect, do you think "[being] known to communities" (Ktsquare, 2015) is currently crucial to get up-to-date information about activities, projects and whatnots of wikimania and the Wikimedia Foundation ? -- Ktsquare (talk) 16:21, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

@Ktsquare: No, it's not crucial. However, I agree that it helps to have connections. The more meetups you go to and the more people you know, the more likely you'll be informed of future meetups... Deryck C. 10:43, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
@Deryck Chan: Given all you have mentioned above, one important aspect that I want to know for sure is do I need consent from senior community member from a wikimedia project, say the Chinese Wikipedia project or even a representative of wikimedia project in the wikimedia foundation or at wikimania to participate in any wikipedia project ? I have not received any idea of this aspect from at Chinese Wikipedia from their zh:Wikipedia:Bureaucrats -- Ktsquare (talk) 14:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
@Ktsquare: No. Be bold! Deryck C. 15:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

French civil unrest[edit]

Hi Deryck, can you take another look at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 June 27#French civil unrest? I think everyone's position supports retargeting to the new list article Tavix made. --BDD (talk) 17:47, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Copyeditor Barnstar Hires.png The Copyeditor's Barnstar
For your work on Alan Mak (politician). Urquhartnite (talk) 11:22, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Formatting redirects after RfD closures[edit]

The redirect style guide puts a blank line between the #REDIRECT line and the first template. So when you close RfDs, please don’t remove that line. (I’ll watch this page in case you respond.) Gorobay (talk) 00:37, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Deletion review for King Mez[edit]

Freshheirs00 has asked for a deletion review of King Mez. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. —Cryptic 00:26, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Sad face :( at RfD[edit]

Things move so quickly now don't they? That was never "A week" without discussion. Thanks for yours, anyway. Nice to hear from someone who still knows the subjűnctive mood.

From your rather picky co-editor, Si Trew (talk) 05:02, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

And I typo'd. Typos don't count. Si Trew (talk) 05:02, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
@SimonTrew: I added a link on the new Wikipedia:Parenthesis to Wikipedia:Vandalism, explaining the "sad face" connection. Thanks. Deryck C. 09:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)