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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Alex.osheter (talk | contribs) at 16:06, 19 May 2019 (→‎Sources do not back up claims made in the article.: Feel free to reorganize this section. I tried to keep it organized, but it still looks like a mess.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Findsourcesnotice

Sources do not back up claims made in the article.

I decided to split the changes into small bits, to describe each change as accurately as possible. But this is the final version I was going to publish.

Epik is an American privately held and ICANN-accredited domain registrar and web hosting company[1], headquartered in Sammamish, Washington[2]. Its' founder and CEO, Rob Monster, has been involved in a controversy for defending, and eventually hosting Gab's domain[3].

The sources did not reflect what was said in the article. The Wired article focuses on the controversy surrounding the CEO's private statements and the eventual hosting of Gab's domain. My proposal keeps this fact in a WP:NPOV. Also, I've added some much needed sources for information about the company. Alex.osheter (talk) 17:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "ICANN-Accredited Registrars". ICANN. May 5, 2019. Archived from the original on May 5, 2019. Retrieved May 5, 2019. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  2. ^ "Corporations and Charities System". ccfs.sos.wa.gov. Retrieved 2019-05-18. {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |dead-url= (help)
  3. ^ Martineau, Paris (2018-11-06). "How Right-Wing Social Media Site Gab Got Back Online". Wired. ISSN 1059-1028. Retrieved 2019-05-18.
You are, once again, attempting to whitewash an article about a company associated with the far right. The sourcing supports the claims in the lead, and so they should remain. The reliable sourcing surrounding Epik exclusively discusses the company in the context of the services it provides to far-right people and organizations. Monster is not somehow personally registering Gab, Epik is. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:17, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Read your sources. The Wired article specifically mentions Monster and his statements about Gab prior to registering them. The Seattle Times article simply discusses Gab's new home. The HuffPo article practically ONLY focuses on the founder. Not one source talks about it being known for providing services to websites that host alt-right and white supremacy far-right, Neo-Nazi, and other extremist connections. Alex.osheter (talk) 17:50, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Don't accuse me of not reading my sources, I wrote the article for Chrissakes. I'm not sure why you're bringing up the alt-right or white supremacy—I have not mentioned the alt-right at all in this article or on this talk page, and white supremacy is only mentioned in the context of The Daily Stormer, which BitMitigate serves. GorillaWarfare (talk) 19:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's my bad. I've corrected the comment and underlined added text for further clarification. Alex.osheter (talk) 20:40, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My comment below addresses the clarified version as well. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Response to your claim on my talk page that you were removing statements that are simply not in the source, which is what I did.:

Since each of these points is from a separate source, I'd appreciate it if we could address them separately. I'll add my own comments below each source. Alex.osheter (talk) 16:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You removed "known for providing services to websites that host far-right, Neo-Nazi, and other extremist content as well as those that sell illegal drugs and counterfeit medications" from the lead.

  • "Social-media site Gab.com, which became an internet outcast after one of its racist users was arrested in the mass shooting at a Pittsburgh synagogue, is back online thanks to the help of a Seattle-area web company.... Bowers was one of many far-right extremists who had found a home at Gab. After the shooting, domain platform GoDaddy told Gab to find another provider, saying that GoDaddy had investigated and “discovered numerous instances of content on the site that both promotes and encourages violence against people."" The Seattle Times GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The ease with which Monster, a tiny player in the tech community, was able to revive a gathering space for extremists illustrates the main limitation of deplatforming efforts: They require universal agreement. As long as one person, somewhere, is willing to host the hate, deplatforming doesn’t work. Rob Monster is willing to be that guy." HuffPost GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • This one also not make the claim that Epik provides services to websites that host [...] content. This article also only seems to talk about Monster himself. I would suggest it be removed as a source entirely. Alex.osheter (talk) 16:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His company Epik describes itself as “the Swiss bank of domains” and is one of the few US-based registrars with a history of refusing to respond to reports of illegal activity. According to a report by the pharmaceutical watchdog organization LegitScript, Epik has been told that some of the domains the company sponsors sell illegal drugs and inauthentic medications, yet the company has not acted." Wired GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Again, accuracy matters. They have been notified once by a single watchdog organization. This is a stretch from "known for". I think this should be included in the article, but definitely not in the lead, and definitely not the way it's phrased now. Also, the word Gab appears in this article more than twice as much as Epik does, it's clearly not the focus of the article. Specifically regarding illegal drugs, I'd recommend giving the actual report as a source, as opposed to an article discussing the report (and again, Gab). Alex.osheter (talk) 16:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since you've challenged the content, per WP:LEADCITE I'll pull up some additional sources that support the characterization, including:

  • "The Far Right Has Found a Web Host Savior // A web host called Epik has begun hosting the sites that other web hosts won't, which raises questions about how successful deplatforming hateful websites can actually be.... The connection between the neo-Nazi podcasters and the Seattle-based company isn’t surprising: The web hosting service has recently become the safehaven for the extreme right." – Vice GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • This Vice article conflicts with various reliable sources. It alleges Epik is a webhost, which is false. The Seattle Times reports: "Monster said on Epik’s website that his company was serving as Gab’s domain registrar but not its hosting company". We can also verify this, their host is Cloudflare. Therefore, this source is not credible. Please remove it. Alex.osheter (talk) 16:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "One thing that was not mentioned in Monster’s video: the acquisition brings together two companies that have each made headlines in recent years for providing services to far-right and neo-Nazi websites that have been dropped by other providers." The Columbian GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Quietly, a small domain registrar called Epik is cornering the market on websites where hate speech is thriving....Now, the company has picked up the business of BitChute, a low-rent YouTube clone that carries an array of hate-fueled material, including white nationalist podcasts, propaganda linked to a murderous neo-Nazi group and a parody song called “N----- Babies,” which chortles at the idea of slaughtering and then eating black infants." – SPLC GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • The SPLC's stance as a reliable source is heavily contested. They've been right in some cases, and wrong in other ones 1 2 3 . They've been dropped by Twitter as a reliable source for identifying hate groups 4. While they get it right sometimes, I would strongly advise against adding them as a source. Alex.osheter (talk) 16:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Trying to remove reference to Epik's hosting and association with far-right elements is not a credible line of reasoning. A material amount of WP:RS on this company mentions this fact, and it is one of the most notable facts regarding the company; thus appropriate in the lede. Britishfinance (talk) 10:10, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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