Talk:Arabid race

Historical Classification

I think it may be a good idea to make clear, in the text of the article, that this is an historical classification and has no scientific validity. To be clear - by no means am I arguing in favor of deleting the article, as it is important to understand the history of racism. However, I worry that young students will take such an article for scientific consensus. Thank you.Greedyhalibut (talk) 22:34, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I have made it clear that the term is antiquated and not in use anymore, but Maciamo keeps reverting my edits for some reason. His gallery of Arabids is also original research, since they have not been classified by scholars, but by himself. FunkMonk (talk) 20:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Oriental and Orientalid can refer to both Arabid and Iranid, so it should not be here. FunkMonk (talk) 04:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

• This more exact name because not only Arabs belong to this race, but also Jews. STUTTGART (talk) 05:25, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

You're misunderstanding the typology. Just because a type (Arabid) is named after an ethnicity (Arab) does not mean that all members of the ethnicity belong to the type, or that other ethnicities can't belong to it. The name is irrelevant to the included ethnicities, but the type can be prevalent in some ethnicities (like Arabid is prevalent among South Arabs). No ethnicity are of a single type.

When these ideas where in fashion, Arabid and Iranid were thought to both be subtypes of the Orientalid. FunkMonk (talk) 11:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

McCullogh, Richard. The Races of Humanity, 2010: this author specifically subdivides Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews into different subraces, Mizrahim - into the Oriental race whereas Sephardim - into the South Mediterranean subrace («South Mediterranean or Saharid subrace (predominant in Algeria and Libya, important in Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt), primary element among the Sephardic Jews, common element [circa 20-25%] in Spain, Sicily and southern Italy[...]»). STUTTGART thus lumped them together without any supportive sources.--SimulacrumDP (talk) 14:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

The "author" you're citing is a blogger who didn't source his material. His opinion is about as useful as my cat's opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C40:4A00:1D00:F1C3:B77B:3FAB:CE2F (talk) 00:48, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

According to Deniker the Spanish Sephardi Jews were mainly of Arabid (not Saharid) type. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.36.30 (talk) 09:23, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Deniker has been dead for more than a century. His views on race are beyond irrelevant. Try citing Deniker in an academic paper and see what grade you receive. Citing Deniker is like citing a 19th century physician who claims the best treatment for consumption (TB) is to move to a dry environment. Yup, maybe that was the best treatment a century and a half ago. A lot of advancements have been made since then.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C40:4A00:1D00:F1C3:B77B:3FAB:CE2F (talk) 00:48, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

• Oriental type → Mediterranean branch → Caucasian race!!! STUTTGART (talk) 04:39, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

No, you are incorrect, read your own sources: South Mediterranean subrace (Saharid) is a separate subrace, just like Oriental.--SimulacrumDP (talk) 15:07, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Again, Oriental can also refer to Iranids by some authors. See Biasutti: http://dienekes.110mb.com/texts/biasutticaucasoid/ FunkMonk (talk) 20:17, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Moved to Arabid

I have moved this article to Arabid, since, yet again, Oriental referred to many Eastern types of Caucasoids, not only Arabids. FunkMonk (talk) 10:58, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Dbachmann moved it back for some reason. I have already explained here why it should be at Arabid. FunkMonk (talk) 13:18, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

File:Arabid.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Arabid.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 15:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Mizrahi

I have removed a phrase on Mizrahi Jews being mainly Arabid in type, which was attributed to a self-published webpage by Richard McCulloch. He is not a scientist/authority on human biology. Soupforone (talk) 12:10, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

So what? He was right. Mizrahi Jews are mostly of Oriental type, with some Mediterranean and Armenoid admixtures. They all have hook-noses. 78.8.172.63 (talk) 18:28, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

This article should be deleted

This entire article is a massive shxtshow. It is beyond obvious that no one involved in the creation of this article has a degree in anything, and certainly not anthropology. This debate you're all having about races and "subraces", none of you have any idea at all how genetics works, do you? And your sources, "theapricity.com"? Are you freaking kidding me? Why don't you just cite "Buzzfeed". Between "theapricity.com" and "theracialcompact.com", 8 of the 9 sources for this article HAVE NO REFERENCES (because the only literature supportive of these ideas is more than 80 years old and has been abandoned by the anthropology community for 8 decades). The ideas presented in this article were overwhelmingly abandoned by anthropologists 80 years ago. Any legitimate anthropologist with an actual degree (like me) who reads this article is going to have the exact same reaction I did, "WOW, what a massive shxtshow this article is".

HOW IN THE WORLD does this article qualify as a WikiProject Anthropology article when no legitimate anthropologist with a degree would acknowledge any of the ideas presented in the article?

This article should just be deleted. It is a massive shxtshow relying entire upon uncited ideas derived from a white-supremacist website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C40:4A00:1D00:F1C3:B77B:3FAB:CE2F (talk) 00:36, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

The article will probably not be deleted since the topic is notable, however we would welcome it if you were to rewrite this article from scratch using scholarly sources. Feel free to write to me if you need assistance. – Thjarkur (talk) 01:40, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Sure. Here's the entire article- "Arabid race is a historical term once used by eugenicists during the infancy of anthropology, as anthropology was emerging as a field of genuine scientific study. The term has not been used in the academic study of anthropology since the 1960's, and the ideas the term represents were overwhelmingly abandoned by anthropologists at the same time."

That's extent of this article's relevance. And the terms "caucasoid" and "negroid" and all the other "oid" terms, if you use those terms in a paper submitted for peer-review, it would pretty much be the end of your career as an anthropologist, because no matter what you did afterward, every anthropologist on the planet would have a copy of the paper in which you used that ridiculously antiquated, eugenicist terminology, in which you've made a laughing stock of yourself, and no one's going to take you seriously ever again. If you were to use that terminology in an academic paper submitted for a class, the instructor would sit you down and say, "listen, we need to have a talk", as he tried to hold back his laughter.

The ideas of "race" represented in this article have no relevance in anthropology. I have a Bachelor of Science in anthropology with minors in Archaeology and GIS. I've been around the world the world on archaeology digs and have contributed to numerous articles which have been submitted for peer-review. Prior to reading about it on Wikipedia a few days ago, I had never even heard term "sub-race" before. This is not a legitimate term in anthropology. This is not a legitimate idea in anthropology. This is not a legitimate anything in anthropology. It doesn't exist in actual academic, scientific anthropology.

The idea of trying to categorize humans based upon perceived phenotypic characteristics has been abandoned by the anthropology community for more than half a century, especially with the advent of modern genetic analysis. The reason for this is simple Mendelian genetics. I can't explain to you how Mendelian genetics work in the talk section of this article. It's literally an entire semester's worth of material. But overwhelmingly, phenotypic typology has been abandoned by anthropology because as demonstrated clearly with simple Mendelian genetics, every combination of every pairing of alleles is going to manifest with 100% likelihood, 50% likelihood twice, and 25% likelihood. This is why siblings have different hair colors. This is why siblings have different eye colors. This is why one sibling may have a larger nose while the other has a smaller nose. This is what makes attempted phenotypic classification based upon perceived physical traits completely irrelevant in anthropology. There's no science behind it. And now, with the advent of modern genetic analysis, attempted phenotypic categorization based upon visually perceived manifestations of alleles, is a joke. It's beyond a joke. It's idiocy, and the only people doing this, on all these websites, are idiotic armchair "anthropologists" who have no degree in anthropology, no background in anthropology beyond what they've read on Wikipedia, and who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

The point is, the only relevance of this article to actual modern anthropology, is that the term "Arabid race" was once used in the infancy of scientific anthropology, but hasn't been used in 70 or 80 years, and has no relevance to modern scientific anthropology. It's like this, if you were going to write an article about the antiquated medical term "consumption", what would you write about it? Tuberculosis was once called "consumption", back before the advent of modern medicine, when people believed that the cure for tuberculosis/consumption was moving to a drier climate. Other than that, the term "consumption" has no relevance in modern medicine. This is what the term "Arabid race". Except that "Arabid race" is way less relevant than "consumption" because far less people were familiar with the term. It's nothing. It's a footnote to a footnote to a footnote in the history of the infancy of modern scientific anthropology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C40:4A00:1D00:F1C3:B77B:3FAB:CE2F (talk) 18:02, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLYT!!!! Have you actually looked at the two remaining papers cited in this article? One of the papers dates to 1974, and the other one, which claims to be dated to 2017, was actually written in 1913. The entire second paragraph of what's left of this article references a paper WRITTEN IN 1913!!!!! This is what Wikipedia is? The first sentence of this article relies on a paper written almost half a century ago, and the entire remainder of this article relies on a paper written ONE-HUNDRED AND SEVEN YEARS AGO. There's nothing in this article that's of any relevance to anthropology AT ALL.

This article is a prime example of why instructors steer students so adamantly away from Wikipedia. "But teacher, Wikipedia says this is modern information dated to 2017." "No Billy, the reference on Wikipedia is dated incorrectly. You've just wasted your time learning about what people believed in the early 1900's. Unfortunately, that information has no relevance in this era. Please Billy, never use Wikipedia again."