Talk:Romance (Camila Cabello album)

Name

None of the sources refer to this album as Romance. Where did this name come from? Billiekhalidfan (talk) 22:09, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

The trailer on Camila's Instagram says at the end, "Welcome to the world of Romance", which is being interpreted as an album title by a multitude of people. Not saying it's definitively correct, just telling you where it came from. Ss112 22:25, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Camila Cabello's Spotify profile establishes that the name of the album is "Romance" (in multiple places, such as on playlists and advertisements), just for the record. Sean Stephens (talk) 22:09, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

SIngles

"Liar" is listed as the first single as it comes before "Shameless" alphabetically. The fact that "Shameless" had a music video first does not mean a thing. When the track list is announced, we can change the first single if needed to whichever song appears first. But until then, this should be the order. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Too soon

To be honest I feel like this article was created too soon. There aren't many sources talking about the album, there isn't a confirmed release date nor an album cover. 3 of 5 sources are from Camila's social media. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 03:09, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Cry for Me, Easy and Living Proof - SINGLES????

Hello, i want to know why Cry for Me, Easy and Living Proof are considered like singles?

My reasons why this songs ARE NOT SINGLES:

1. Non of them was released as a single, only a track from the album that is a promotional single, just like ´Real Friends´ or ´OMG´ did. 2. Non of them have a radio release or any promotion, just a Instagarm or Twitter post by Cabello, showing that the songs are only SONGS / TRACKS no SINGLES. (https://www.instagram.com/p/B3aubadnZBx/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/B3IBKvdHOAs/) 3. Non of them have video, yeah i know that a single can't have video but Camila always release the video of the songs that are SINGLES. 4. Her manager Roger Gold, says that in this album would not have singles, only songs, when a fan ask about if CFM and EASY they were singles. (https://twitter.com/rogerhgold/status/1180136922091593731) 5. AND LIVING PROOF? WHY? HAHAAHA, THIS SONG IS REALLY A PROMOTIONAL JUST LIKE REAL FRIENDS WHEN THE FIRST ALBUM CAME WITH THE PRE-ORDER LOL 5. Finally, after Señorita made it into the album, is this song considered the LEAD SINGLE of the album?

THANKS YOU AND I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND MY POINT OF VIEW! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxgoldman12334 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Completely agree! "Easy" and "Cry For Me" only got the SNL performance for promotion and thats it. No radio date. Nothing! I think they should be considered promotional singles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LOVI33 (talk • contribs) 13:59, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

No radio date doesn't mean that it's not a single. There are sources calling both of these singles. Not all singles need radio dates to be one. "Cry for Me" and "Easy" are singles. CountyCountry (talk) 14:19, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, they are sources calling that tracks, SINGLES, but those sources are not her record label (Epic & Syco), they are only pages that comment that these songs are singles just like it happened with OMG or Real Friends when they came out. Only her record label had the voice to say that this songs were singles or not, even her manager says that were only tracks. Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 14:40, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Epic Records about ‘Easy’: “CAMILA CABELLO UNVEILS ANOTHER LAYER OF ROMANCE WITH BRAND NEW TRACK “EASY” and “Camila Cabello unveils a new song entitled “Easy.” Get it HERE via SYCO/Epic Records. It stands out as the latest track to be uncovered from her anxiously awaited second full-length and one of the most anticipated albums of 2019, Romance—coming very soon”. In where part they say that Easy is a single?

https://www.epicrecords.com/camila-cabello-unveils-another-layer-of-romance-with-brand-new-track-easy/ Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 15:07, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

What users have to understand is that public media usually state "single," when they should state "song." A music video ≠ single release. A digital release ≠ single release. Usually, a radio add is what marks a single release. Also, it's worth mentioning that "Señorita" was never promoted for the album; it was always billed from one of Shawn's projects. Her including it on the album does not mean it was a single release from the album, as it was never promoted from her upcoming project.

That's not true. Songs don't need the label to call them singles in order to be singles. Reliable sources calling them singles should justify that these are singles. This is the case with the singles, "Cry for Me" and "Easy". Not all songs need a radio date to be a single. And about the manager's post: He was not just saying that "Cry for Me" and "Easy" are not singles. Instead, he was saying that the album won't have any singles. That is obviously false because Epic Records said that "Liar" and "Shameless" are singles and they will be in the album. CountyCountry (talk) 23:06, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

@Maxgoldman12334: Simple, because reliable sources state they are singles. Wikipedia does not include WP:Original research. If the singles are later officially labeled as promotional singles by reliable sources then it will be changed accordingly (and note that the reliable sources must be reliable music sources, not some random blog or a fashion site, for instance). For now, they have been designated singles. Please do not add or change content that is not supported by reliable sources. Lapadite (talk) 04:10, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

I think what people do not realize is that promotional singles are a type of single. Single is a very broad term and reliable sources can call them singles when really they can be official singles, promotional singles, remix singles, etc. "Living Proof" is 100% a single as it has a radio date in Australia however "Cry for Me" and "Easy" are still debatable.LOVI33 (talk) 03:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Y'all blind? It's clear that Romance has for sure promotional singles! Not every song she has released is a single. GetawayDress (talk) 11:09, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

When a song is a promotional single, reliable sources tend to call it a "song" or "track", but don't use the word "single". Again, this goes for reliable sources. We have reliable sources calling these singles, and there is no reason to believe that these are promotional singles. CountyCountry (talk) 05:16, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

See my comment above. Reliable music sources call them singles. If reliable music sources later call them promotional singles, it will be changed in the article. Lapadite (talk) 09:42, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

That's the issue — most publications, regardless, will call a song release a "single." And from other discussions I've seen take place — radio release is what indicates a single release from a label, especially in today's streaming society. That does not mean it qualifies as one. I'm also still questioning if "Señorita" should be included, because it was never mentioned as a release from her album, or promoted from the Romance project. livelikemusic talk! 22:29, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

You're just ignoring what reliable sources say and calling these two songs promotional singles. That is original research. Radio release isn't needed to make a song a single. Not true at all, and I'm not sure what discussions you were looking at. CountyCountry (talk) 22:39, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussions that took place to decide if a song was an actual single or not — and it was stated that simply stating it's a single does not mean it IS one, and that a radio release was indicative of a single release by a label. livelikemusic talk! 23:05, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

That's really not true. Not all songs require a radio release to be a single, and as long as reliable sources call it a single, it's a single. This has been applied to many single articles on Wikipedia that don't have a radio release date. There have been many discussions where it stated the opposite of what you said. CountyCountry (talk) 23:16, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm not debating that — I'm merely stating what I've experienced through my past discussions on this topic, etc. Clearly, this is still a hot topic issue, and seems to be a limited-editor discussion; we should allow others to be involved, and seek of their view points, otherwise, a circle-discussion will be had. livelikemusic talk! 23:22, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Tagging @SNUGGUMS:, @Hayman30:, @U990467:, @Ssilvers:, @Skywatcher68:. And here is a list of sources that calls these songs singles: "Cry for Me"[1][2][3] "Easy": [4]

[5] [6] [7] CountyCountry (talk) 03:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Just as a general comment; being released to radio isn't necessarily what makes something a single; there's also physical/digital sales from retailers and being released onto paid streaming services. A promo single is released for free (sometimes as an instant grat when pre-ordering an album), and can get airplay without officially being a single. In fact, radio popularity can prompt an official single release. I'm not interested in discussing the specifics of these tracks now. There admittedly can be gray area between official/promotional singles (especially with streams gaining more and more prominence), but what I've said here should help with differences. That's all I have to say. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:13, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

I think that we should only call official singles "singles". Promotional singles should be called just that: "promotional single". Other songs are just "songs", regardless of what sloppy sources call them. Again, IMO, only official singles released as such by the publisher should be called singles. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:43, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Works for me. Unless these ever see a retail release as singles, keep them as promotional singles. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 16:41, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Just because a song fails to enter the charts doesn't mean weeks later we are going to turn it into a promotional song. That's clearly original research. Please do not make more changes without providing sources that labels this songs as promotional singles. Also, Señorita is not the lead single of the album, but should be mentioned since in Noviember it was included to the album. Miaow 20:34, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

There are several credible references calling these "singles", which is clearly the opposite of original research. See CountyCountry's comment timestamped 03:48, 19 November 2019, for examples. The fact that these have yet to see a retail release as singles suggests that they are indeed promotional only. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 22:25, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

@Skywatcher68: Yes, they are singles. I'm agree with you.

Please, someone, there is a disruptive user that had reverted all my edits where I restored edits on the Romance related pages where user like GetawayDress are still changing all these songs to "promotional singles" without consensus on many pages, and without support by sources. Keep an eye on this, please. CC: @CountyCountry: --Miaow 22:43, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Lmaoooo GetawayDress (talk) 00:33, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Those songs are singles because they were released for sale on itunes. Sources like Billboard call them also singles [8]. This is similar to the Ariana Grande discography's case and everyone there also stated that a song is promotional single when it's released for free (see the discussion); and this is not the case of Cry For Me and Easy. They are clearly singles, they were released for sale. I don't know why fans always are making a big deal of this on Wikipedia. Miaow 02:20, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

I've looked for them to be available for sale but failed to check iTunes. If they have 'em for sale as singles then go ahead and remove the "promotional" modifier. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 04:54, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Taking Sunflower (Post Malone and Swae Lee song) and the Post Malone's album Hollywood's Bleeding as an example, i think it's correct that "Señorita" should not be mentioned as one of the singles, as it was never promoted as a Romance's single. The song was just included much later. It should only be mentioned in the track list. What do you think? Miaow 16:28, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. In Señorita, in the "from the album" section, Romance should also be removed because Señorita isn't a single from the album. CountyCountry (talk) 22:58, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

@CountyCountry: So I just removed it since it was also included without consensus and I have added some refs. Best regards. Miaow 15:36, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

But in the case of ‘My Everything’ by Ariana Grande, BANG BANG is considered a single and is from Jessie J’s album so??? Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 16:02, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Because it was also a single from the deluxe version of My Everything. Miaow 21:23, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Please @Lapadite77: before you "restores content again", leave a comment here. Since "Señorita" is not a single from Romance, that's the reason we are not including the song in "Singles" section. Best regards. Miaow 21:23, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

please request a page lock on this article due to track lists being unsourced Moonlightfocus (talk) 05:06, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Why The Light is Coming of Ariana Grande from Sweetner is not considered single, even though it was had music video and Cry For Me, Easy and Living Proof are? Ariana even performed at Wango Tango and I don't see the song being considered single, even though have media articles saying it is. It's not because the media call a track that was released a single that it is. This is unfair. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisjohnny (talk • contribs) 02:24, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I was looking at the audio videos for "Cry for Me" and "Easy" on Cabello's YouTube, and in the description, she called them singles.[9][10] Music video has nothing to do with a song being a single. Also, ignoring reliable sources that are calling these singles and instead calling these promotional singles is original research. "Living Proof" was released to the radio, so it is a single. CountyCountry (talk) 02:49, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree that Living Proof is single, but Easy and Cry For Me are just promotional singles. The songs were not even sent to the radios. I don't know if you know, but in this age of streams, many artists are releasing songs before the album is released so that streams count towards certificates and so on. Since few artists are having less success with tracks that become single after the album is released due to easy access to songs across platforms. I hope you can reconsider these two songs as a single, because it's a little unfair to the work of the artist being recorded here on the page. Thisjohnny 04:12, 6 December 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisjohnny (talk • contribs)

The light is coming is a promo single according to the artist. Is it unfair because her fans don't want unsuccessful songs that aren't charted on billboard labeled as singles when they are clearly singles? How many times we need to say it? If you don't have sources stating they are promo singles, stop with this please. Thank you.Miaow 18:21, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Even she herself called them singles on her YT channel.Miaow 18:28, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi, "Cry For Me" or "Easy" are 100% not radio singles. I don't know who's running this Wiki but they can't be that invested in Camila? Cry For Me & Easy are promo singles, just bc they were performed on live tv does not make them singles at all. If that were the case "imagine" by Ariana Grande and "Look At Her Now" by Selena Gomez would also be considered singles, however it is commonly known they are promotional singles. In addition to this, it is debatable as to whether "Living Proof" is a single as it was only serviced to radio, never had an impact date! And having a music video does not give anyone an excuse to call it a single (see: Look At Her Now by Selena and Let Me Love You by Ariana). — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 17:37, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Clearly Camila stans aren't running this wiki page. Cry For Me & Easy do not fit in the guidelines of songs that are considered "singles". If that were the case songs like "Let Me Love You", "Jason's Song", "Best Mistake", "the light is coming" or "imagine" by Ariana Grande would also be considered singles. However they are not. As actual Ariana stans run those wiki pages. Please do some research before dictating your own personal beliefs on singles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

@RobbieN007: Singles don't have to be released to the radio in order to be one. Multiple reliable sources have called "Cry for Me" and "Easy" singles, and as I have said above, Cabello herself has also called them singles.CountyCountry (talk) 02:54, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

If you knew anything about this era, you'd know Camila wasn't calling any song a "single", there were no singles according to her, just "songs". So if you claim "singles don't have to be released to the radio in order to be one" then why aren't "Look At Her Now", "imagine", "the light is coming" or "Let Me Love You" considered singles from their respective albums? ..... Because they are promotional singles, which is what both "Easy" and "Cry For Me" are. No radio impact date. They weren't even serviced to radio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs)

@RobbieN007: Stop making disruptive edits, please. Also WP:OTHERCONTENT, we are talking about Cabello not about Gomez or Grande, etc. There is no reason to label the less successful singles as promotional singles, and you are the one triying to dictate your own personal beliefs on promotional singles. Countycountry is right on this. There are several sources that called them singles. This video's description on Camila Cabello's youtube channel says Cry For Me is a single. And this one states Easy is the fourth single. Keep arguing about this and keep repeating the same thing makes no sense. Best regards. Miaow 16:20, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

You clearly are not a stan, why are you bothering to monitor this wikipedia page? I know very well this wikipedia page is not about Gomez or Grande, I was using them as examples. However, I guess you couldn't catch onto that. Camila never stated any of the songs as "singles" because to her there were no "singles" from "Romance", only "songs". And just because Fader calls the song a "single", does not make it an official single (e.g: https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/ariana-grande-imagine-stream/). Fader is not her record label or her management. In technical terms, the songs sent to radio would be considered singles. Easy & Cry For Me were never sent to radios. Keep arguing about this and repeating your same incorrect opinions makes no sense, once again why are you monitoring this page if you have no insight into this era. Best regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Multiple reliable sources have called these singles, and by simply ignoring these sources and calling them promotional singles is original research. And you're simply ignoring the fact that Cabello called them singles. And DO NOT delete other users' responses in a talk page. That is disruptive. CountyCountry (talk) 22:47, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I DID NOT delete other users responses. I was deleting my own. Don't you dare accuse me of things I did not do. I tried to delete an earlier response of mine as I was not happy with how I articulated myself. I am not ignoring anything. But you are just being outright stubborn and not considering other perspectives on this issue. I can understand it is difficult for you to comprehend, but you need to re-read what everyone else has been saying. You are being disruptive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

What you did is all in the edit history. I am not being stubborn. Wikipedia does not include original research. CountyCountry (talk) 22:57, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

It must've been a keyboard accident as all I did was remove my own paragraph. I suggest in future you try to acknowledge others' opinions and inquiries instead of just dismissing them. No more on this topic. Best regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 22:58, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Senorita

Shouldn't Senorita be counted as the lead single of Romance because it came before Liar & Shameless? — Preceding unsigned comment added by T0mRiddlee (talk • contribs) 01:17, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

It was never promoted as a single from the album, "Romance". Therefore, it should not be listed in the singles section.CountyCountry (talk) 00:40, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

EASY AND CRY FOR ME ARE NOT SINGLES

This is not an opinion, it's the truth. "Easy" and "Cry for Me" were NOT sent to any radio worldwide, those are NOT SINGLES. Just promotional tracks. The fact that Camila herself called them singles doesn't change that. She meant promotional singles. Stop changing that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:B07:6456:34C7:D9EA:995A:E019:CC2A (talk) 11:44, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

@CountyCountry @Miaow reply to this please. Best regards. RobbieN007 (talk) 12:35, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

@RobbieN007: Any claims need reliable sources. Not all singles are sent to radio, lots of stations pick up singles themselves. If the horses mouth says its a single then its a single. She did not call them promotional singles. [User:Lil-unique1|→ Lil-℧niquԐ1]] - (Talk) - 12:38, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Why do publishers (or the horses mouth as you say) decide what Camila’s singles are? Publishers have listed songs such as “imagine” by Ariana or “Future Nostalgia” by Dua Lipa as “new singles”, however are deemed promo singles by Wikipedia. Why aren’t you following this same consensus for Camila? Other mainstream artists aren’t using the word “promo single” anymore (Dua Lipa never specified “Future Nostalgia” as a promo single), so if Cry for Me/Easy weren’t sent to radios, what is your actual logic behind them being singles? I would appreciate your insight on this matter. RobbieN007 (talk) 16:18, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Page protection

@Ad Orientem: Can you protect this article? It looks like the debate over what's a single and what's not is still ongoing. IP and newly registered editors are on the article every single day restoring/removing/arguing like it's a tug of war. It's disruptive. Ss112 18:51, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

 Declined I'm not seeing enough disruption to justify page protection for now. But I will remind editors to be mindful of edit warring and to respect WP:BRD. Content disputes need to be resolved on the talk page. If anyone is not getting that message point them to this comment. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:25, 13 December 2019 (UTC)