Talk:Romance (Camila Cabello album)

Name

None of the sources refer to this album as Romance. Where did this name come from? Billiekhalidfan (talk) 22:09, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

The trailer on Camila's Instagram says at the end, "Welcome to the world of Romance", which is being interpreted as an album title by a multitude of people. Not saying it's definitively correct, just telling you where it came from. Ss112 22:25, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Camila Cabello's Spotify profile establishes that the name of the album is "Romance" (in multiple places, such as on playlists and advertisements), just for the record. Sean Stephens (talk) 22:09, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

SIngles

"Liar" is listed as the first single as it comes before "Shameless" alphabetically. The fact that "Shameless" had a music video first does not mean a thing. When the track list is announced, we can change the first single if needed to whichever song appears first. But until then, this should be the order. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 16:12, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Too soon

To be honest I feel like this article was created too soon. There aren't many sources talking about the album, there isn't a confirmed release date nor an album cover. 3 of 5 sources are from Camila's social media. Billiekhalidfan (talk) 03:09, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Cry for Me, Easy and Living Proof - SINGLES????

Hello, i want to know why Cry for Me, Easy and Living Proof are considered like singles?

My reasons why this songs ARE NOT SINGLES:

1. Non of them was released as a single, only a track from the album that is a promotional single, just like ´Real Friends´ or ´OMG´ did. 2. Non of them have a radio release or any promotion, just a Instagarm or Twitter post by Cabello, showing that the songs are only SONGS / TRACKS no SINGLES. (https://www.instagram.com/p/B3aubadnZBx/ and https://www.instagram.com/p/B3IBKvdHOAs/) 3. Non of them have video, yeah i know that a single can't have video but Camila always release the video of the songs that are SINGLES. 4. Her manager Roger Gold, says that in this album would not have singles, only songs, when a fan ask about if CFM and EASY they were singles. (https://twitter.com/rogerhgold/status/1180136922091593731) 5. AND LIVING PROOF? WHY? HAHAAHA, THIS SONG IS REALLY A PROMOTIONAL JUST LIKE REAL FRIENDS WHEN THE FIRST ALBUM CAME WITH THE PRE-ORDER LOL 5. Finally, after Señorita made it into the album, is this song considered the LEAD SINGLE of the album?

THANKS YOU AND I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND MY POINT OF VIEW! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxgoldman12334 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Completely agree! "Easy" and "Cry For Me" only got the SNL performance for promotion and thats it. No radio date. Nothing! I think they should be considered promotional singles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LOVI33 (talk • contribs) 13:59, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

No radio date doesn't mean that it's not a single. There are sources calling both of these singles. Not all singles need radio dates to be one. "Cry for Me" and "Easy" are singles. CountyCountry (talk) 14:19, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, they are sources calling that tracks, SINGLES, but those sources are not her record label (Epic & Syco), they are only pages that comment that these songs are singles just like it happened with OMG or Real Friends when they came out. Only her record label had the voice to say that this songs were singles or not, even her manager says that were only tracks. Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 14:40, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Epic Records about ‘Easy’: “CAMILA CABELLO UNVEILS ANOTHER LAYER OF ROMANCE WITH BRAND NEW TRACK “EASY” and “Camila Cabello unveils a new song entitled “Easy.” Get it HERE via SYCO/Epic Records. It stands out as the latest track to be uncovered from her anxiously awaited second full-length and one of the most anticipated albums of 2019, Romance—coming very soon”. In where part they say that Easy is a single?

https://www.epicrecords.com/camila-cabello-unveils-another-layer-of-romance-with-brand-new-track-easy/ Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 15:07, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

What users have to understand is that public media usually state "single," when they should state "song." A music video ≠ single release. A digital release ≠ single release. Usually, a radio add is what marks a single release. Also, it's worth mentioning that "Señorita" was never promoted for the album; it was always billed from one of Shawn's projects. Her including it on the album does not mean it was a single release from the album, as it was never promoted from her upcoming project.

That's not true. Songs don't need the label to call them singles in order to be singles. Reliable sources calling them singles should justify that these are singles. This is the case with the singles, "Cry for Me" and "Easy". Not all songs need a radio date to be a single. And about the manager's post: He was not just saying that "Cry for Me" and "Easy" are not singles. Instead, he was saying that the album won't have any singles. That is obviously false because Epic Records said that "Liar" and "Shameless" are singles and they will be in the album. CountyCountry (talk) 23:06, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

@Maxgoldman12334: Simple, because reliable sources state they are singles. Wikipedia does not include WP:Original research. If the singles are later officially labeled as promotional singles by reliable sources then it will be changed accordingly (and note that the reliable sources must be reliable music sources, not some random blog or a fashion site, for instance). For now, they have been designated singles. Please do not add or change content that is not supported by reliable sources. Lapadite (talk) 04:10, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

I think what people do not realize is that promotional singles are a type of single. Single is a very broad term and reliable sources can call them singles when really they can be official singles, promotional singles, remix singles, etc. "Living Proof" is 100% a single as it has a radio date in Australia however "Cry for Me" and "Easy" are still debatable.LOVI33 (talk) 03:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Y'all blind? It's clear that Romance has for sure promotional singles! Not every song she has released is a single. GetawayDress (talk) 11:09, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

When a song is a promotional single, reliable sources tend to call it a "song" or "track", but don't use the word "single". Again, this goes for reliable sources. We have reliable sources calling these singles, and there is no reason to believe that these are promotional singles. CountyCountry (talk) 05:16, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

See my comment above. Reliable music sources call them singles. If reliable music sources later call them promotional singles, it will be changed in the article. Lapadite (talk) 09:42, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

That's the issue — most publications, regardless, will call a song release a "single." And from other discussions I've seen take place — radio release is what indicates a single release from a label, especially in today's streaming society. That does not mean it qualifies as one. I'm also still questioning if "Señorita" should be included, because it was never mentioned as a release from her album, or promoted from the Romance project. livelikemusic talk! 22:29, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

You're just ignoring what reliable sources say and calling these two songs promotional singles. That is original research. Radio release isn't needed to make a song a single. Not true at all, and I'm not sure what discussions you were looking at. CountyCountry (talk) 22:39, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Discussions that took place to decide if a song was an actual single or not — and it was stated that simply stating it's a single does not mean it IS one, and that a radio release was indicative of a single release by a label. livelikemusic talk! 23:05, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

That's really not true. Not all songs require a radio release to be a single, and as long as reliable sources call it a single, it's a single. This has been applied to many single articles on Wikipedia that don't have a radio release date. There have been many discussions where it stated the opposite of what you said. CountyCountry (talk) 23:16, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm not debating that — I'm merely stating what I've experienced through my past discussions on this topic, etc. Clearly, this is still a hot topic issue, and seems to be a limited-editor discussion; we should allow others to be involved, and seek of their view points, otherwise, a circle-discussion will be had. livelikemusic talk! 23:22, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Tagging @SNUGGUMS:, @Hayman30:, @U990467:, @Ssilvers:, @Skywatcher68:. And here is a list of sources that calls these songs singles: "Cry for Me"[1][2][3] "Easy": [4]

[5] [6] [7] CountyCountry (talk) 03:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Just as a general comment; being released to radio isn't necessarily what makes something a single; there's also physical/digital sales from retailers and being released onto paid streaming services. A promo single is released for free (sometimes as an instant grat when pre-ordering an album), and can get airplay without officially being a single. In fact, radio popularity can prompt an official single release. I'm not interested in discussing the specifics of these tracks now. There admittedly can be gray area between official/promotional singles (especially with streams gaining more and more prominence), but what I've said here should help with differences. That's all I have to say. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:13, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

I think that we should only call official singles "singles". Promotional singles should be called just that: "promotional single". Other songs are just "songs", regardless of what sloppy sources call them. Again, IMO, only official singles released as such by the publisher should be called singles. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:43, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Works for me. Unless these ever see a retail release as singles, keep them as promotional singles. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 16:41, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Just because a song fails to enter the charts doesn't mean weeks later we are going to turn it into a promotional song. That's clearly original research. Please do not make more changes without providing sources that labels this songs as promotional singles. Also, Señorita is not the lead single of the album, but should be mentioned since in Noviember it was included to the album. Miaow 20:34, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

There are several credible references calling these "singles", which is clearly the opposite of original research. See CountyCountry's comment timestamped 03:48, 19 November 2019, for examples. The fact that these have yet to see a retail release as singles suggests that they are indeed promotional only. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 22:25, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

@Skywatcher68: Yes, they are singles. I'm agree with you.

Please, someone, there is a disruptive user that had reverted all my edits where I restored edits on the Romance related pages where user like GetawayDress are still changing all these songs to "promotional singles" without consensus on many pages, and without support by sources. Keep an eye on this, please. CC: @CountyCountry: --Miaow 22:43, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Lmaoooo GetawayDress (talk) 00:33, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Those songs are singles because they were released for sale on itunes. Sources like Billboard call them also singles [8]. This is similar to the Ariana Grande discography's case and everyone there also stated that a song is promotional single when it's released for free (see the discussion); and this is not the case of Cry For Me and Easy. They are clearly singles, they were released for sale. I don't know why fans always are making a big deal of this on Wikipedia. Miaow 02:20, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

I've looked for them to be available for sale but failed to check iTunes. If they have 'em for sale as singles then go ahead and remove the "promotional" modifier. –Skywatcher68 (talk) 04:54, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Taking Sunflower (Post Malone and Swae Lee song) and the Post Malone's album Hollywood's Bleeding as an example, i think it's correct that "Señorita" should not be mentioned as one of the singles, as it was never promoted as a Romance's single. The song was just included much later. It should only be mentioned in the track list. What do you think? Miaow 16:28, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. In Señorita, in the "from the album" section, Romance should also be removed because Señorita isn't a single from the album. CountyCountry (talk) 22:58, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

@CountyCountry: So I just removed it since it was also included without consensus and I have added some refs. Best regards. Miaow 15:36, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

But in the case of ‘My Everything’ by Ariana Grande, BANG BANG is considered a single and is from Jessie J’s album so??? Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 16:02, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Because it was also a single from the deluxe version of My Everything. Miaow 21:23, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Please @Lapadite77: before you "restores content again", leave a comment here. Since "Señorita" is not a single from Romance, that's the reason we are not including the song in "Singles" section. Best regards. Miaow 21:23, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

please request a page lock on this article due to track lists being unsourced Moonlightfocus (talk) 05:06, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Why The Light is Coming of Ariana Grande from Sweetner is not considered single, even though it was had music video and Cry For Me, Easy and Living Proof are? Ariana even performed at Wango Tango and I don't see the song being considered single, even though have media articles saying it is. It's not because the media call a track that was released a single that it is. This is unfair. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisjohnny (talk • contribs) 02:24, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I was looking at the audio videos for "Cry for Me" and "Easy" on Cabello's YouTube, and in the description, she called them singles.[9][10] Music video has nothing to do with a song being a single. Also, ignoring reliable sources that are calling these singles and instead calling these promotional singles is original research. "Living Proof" was released to the radio, so it is a single. CountyCountry (talk) 02:49, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree that Living Proof is single, but Easy and Cry For Me are just promotional singles. The songs were not even sent to the radios. I don't know if you know, but in this age of streams, many artists are releasing songs before the album is released so that streams count towards certificates and so on. Since few artists are having less success with tracks that become single after the album is released due to easy access to songs across platforms. I hope you can reconsider these two songs as a single, because it's a little unfair to the work of the artist being recorded here on the page. Thisjohnny 04:12, 6 December 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisjohnny (talk • contribs)

The light is coming is a promo single according to the artist. Is it unfair because her fans don't want unsuccessful songs that aren't charted on billboard labeled as singles when they are clearly singles? How many times we need to say it? If you don't have sources stating they are promo singles, stop with this please. Thank you.Miaow 18:21, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Even she herself called them singles on her YT channel.Miaow 18:28, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi, "Cry For Me" or "Easy" are 100% not radio singles. I don't know who's running this Wiki but they can't be that invested in Camila? Cry For Me & Easy are promo singles, just bc they were performed on live tv does not make them singles at all. If that were the case "imagine" by Ariana Grande and "Look At Her Now" by Selena Gomez would also be considered singles, however it is commonly known they are promotional singles. In addition to this, it is debatable as to whether "Living Proof" is a single as it was only serviced to radio, never had an impact date! And having a music video does not give anyone an excuse to call it a single (see: Look At Her Now by Selena and Let Me Love You by Ariana). — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 17:37, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Clearly Camila stans aren't running this wiki page. Cry For Me & Easy do not fit in the guidelines of songs that are considered "singles". If that were the case songs like "Let Me Love You", "Jason's Song", "Best Mistake", "the light is coming" or "imagine" by Ariana Grande would also be considered singles. However they are not. As actual Ariana stans run those wiki pages. Please do some research before dictating your own personal beliefs on singles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

@RobbieN007: Singles don't have to be released to the radio in order to be one. Multiple reliable sources have called "Cry for Me" and "Easy" singles, and as I have said above, Cabello herself has also called them singles.CountyCountry (talk) 02:54, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

If you knew anything about this era, you'd know Camila wasn't calling any song a "single", there were no singles according to her, just "songs". So if you claim "singles don't have to be released to the radio in order to be one" then why aren't "Look At Her Now", "imagine", "the light is coming" or "Let Me Love You" considered singles from their respective albums? ..... Because they are promotional singles, which is what both "Easy" and "Cry For Me" are. No radio impact date. They weren't even serviced to radio. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs)

@RobbieN007: Stop making disruptive edits, please. Also WP:OTHERCONTENT, we are talking about Cabello not about Gomez or Grande, etc. There is no reason to label the less successful singles as promotional singles, and you are the one triying to dictate your own personal beliefs on promotional singles. Countycountry is right on this. There are several sources that called them singles. This video's description on Camila Cabello's youtube channel says Cry For Me is a single. And this one states Easy is the fourth single. Keep arguing about this and keep repeating the same thing makes no sense. Best regards. Miaow 16:20, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

You clearly are not a stan, why are you bothering to monitor this wikipedia page? I know very well this wikipedia page is not about Gomez or Grande, I was using them as examples. However, I guess you couldn't catch onto that. Camila never stated any of the songs as "singles" because to her there were no "singles" from "Romance", only "songs". And just because Fader calls the song a "single", does not make it an official single (e.g: https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/ariana-grande-imagine-stream/). Fader is not her record label or her management. In technical terms, the songs sent to radio would be considered singles. Easy & Cry For Me were never sent to radios. Keep arguing about this and repeating your same incorrect opinions makes no sense, once again why are you monitoring this page if you have no insight into this era. Best regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Multiple reliable sources have called these singles, and by simply ignoring these sources and calling them promotional singles is original research. And you're simply ignoring the fact that Cabello called them singles. And DO NOT delete other users' responses in a talk page. That is disruptive. CountyCountry (talk) 22:47, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I DID NOT delete other users responses. I was deleting my own. Don't you dare accuse me of things I did not do. I tried to delete an earlier response of mine as I was not happy with how I articulated myself. I am not ignoring anything. But you are just being outright stubborn and not considering other perspectives on this issue. I can understand it is difficult for you to comprehend, but you need to re-read what everyone else has been saying. You are being disruptive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

What you did is all in the edit history. I am not being stubborn. Wikipedia does not include original research. CountyCountry (talk) 22:57, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

It must've been a keyboard accident as all I did was remove my own paragraph. I suggest in future you try to acknowledge others' opinions and inquiries instead of just dismissing them. No more on this topic. Best regards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 22:58, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Singles vs. not singles (March 2020)

Hello, I’m a bit confused as to why “Cry For Me” & “Easy” are being defined as the 3rd & 4th singles on Wikipedia, respectively. I understand “Living Proof” as this was a single in the U.K & Australia (not U.S). However “Cry For Me” & “Easy” were not sent to radios in any country, nor was their any confirmation on them being singles. Roger Gold (Camila’s manager) confirmed they were dropping a lot of “songs” not “singles”. Camila also said she’d be dropping a lot of “songs” prior to the album release (I can provide links if requested, however when I previously provided these links the moderators failed to pay any attention to them). “Cry For Me” & “Easy” never had any radio spins, radio impact date, music video or confirmation from Camila/her team they were singles. Just because they were dropped prior to the album release, or received live performances, does not make them official singles, see: “Look At Her Now” - Selena Gomez, “Imagine” - Ariana Grande, “Future Nostalgia” - Dua Lipa. I’m just wondering what the moderators’ actual explanations are behind these being singles as I’m yet to see a valid explanation, I have only seen personal opinions. One moderator previously tried to tell me that because a magazine called them a “single”, that’s the reason.. which is quite a funny excuse! Haha! Please give valid explanations, links etc.., behind your decision to define them as “singles” otherwise that’s defined as original research, which Wikipedia does not facilitate. Best regards. RobbieN007 (talk) 12:27, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

@RobbieN007: I've moved your conversation here as there is already an open discussion about this. Other stuff existing is not a valid reason for or argument for things being called singles or not singles. The distinguishing factor between singles and promotional songs in countdown to an album's release are the level of gravity they are given. Camilla performed both songs live, gave them single covers, released them independently from the album and there is at least one reliable source calling them singles. Using her manager saying "songs" to try and claim that song thing is not a single is WP:SYNTHESIS. Additionally WP:DUCK applies here. Labels constantly try to downgrade songs that weren't as successful or change the narrative in the run up to an album's release. I would say, Promo Singles need to be released in promotion of something specific e.g. countdown to an album's release. If they receive lyric videos, performances and independent releases from the album it's unlikely that they're promo singles unless they are specifically called promo singles by the label or reliable sources. If it acts like a duck, its probably a duck! .In this case, people really need to move on... → Lil-℧niquԐ1 - (Talk) - 15:07, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

@RobbieN007: The links you have provided in this discussion had been checked and do not help us. They simply state that they are songs, and yes, they are songs, it is music. How you think those tweets are evidence and where are you showing that Cry For Me and Easy are promotional singles? Not being released to the radio is not necessarily what makes something a promotional single; when a song is released for sale (physical/digital sales from retailers) is a single. See Single (music). Similar discussions that set a precedent have been mentioned here as well, which should have helped to stop this edit warring from IPs and new users. Regards. --Miaow 21:26, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

The tweet from her manager suggests that out of the 5 songs released prior, not all of them are singles: https://twitter.com/rogerhgold/status/1180136922091593731?s=21 I do not understand why you expect so much clarification from Camila/her team when other pop artists such as Dua Lipa, Selena Gomez, Ariana Grande etc. have followed the exact same structure when releasing their promo singles (announcement + single release on all platforms with individual artwork). Unfortunately for your sake, with Camila’s almost 50 million Instagram followers, I don’t see contributions/edits from new users stopping anytime soon. Maybe I’ll be falsely accused again. But that’s your problem not mine. Regards. RobbieN007 (talk) 11:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Your reply doesn't address the fact that Camilla performed Easy and Cry for Me live. iTunes/countdown singles are not usually performed live. They need to be explicitly referred to as "promo singles" for them to be called as such otherwise they're a normal single. WP:DUCK applies. Again we don't base it off "other artists". → Lil-℧niquԐ1 - (Talk) - 13:21, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

@RobbieN007: We are discussing Camila's article. The sources citing in the article states they are singles and you can check them. On her youtube official channel, she herself call them "singles" in the video's description ([11] [12]. The evidence is there. If you say Cabello's fans will still edit warring even when Cabello's team states Cry For Me and Easy are singles, then a longer protection will be needed, maybe indefinite, and I think it should be considered vandalism in the future since you all are removing songs without providing sources. Your edits are also original research. We have clearly explained here, that such songs are singles because they were released for sale, despite what her manager has said on twitter, because those songs they clearly released separatly, all of them. Please note that Liar and Shameless were released before he published that tweet, and those songs failed to enter the top 10 on Billboard before he said it this. So it cpuld be a team's strategy after the songs didn't have enoug success. Regards. Miaow 18:12, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Lil-Unique1: A) Promo singles are commonly performed live as it gives exposure to more songs from the album rather than just the lead single(s) and develops album campaign. Example: Ariana Grande: released Imagine as an iTunes single & performed on Ellen (album 2-3 months later), Selena Gomez: released Look At Her Now on iTunes as a single & performed at the AMAs (album 2 months later). Camila released Easy/Cry For Me as an iTunes single, performed on SNL & album 2 months later.

Miaow: B) Arguably not an insinuation of the song being a “single” from the album, but instead referring to it as a “single” as that was the format it was released on due to pre order not being present. Two different things. The song is defined as being a “single” as “promotional single” is not a format title on iTunes etc. & “EP” or “Album” would not be applicable. Even if pre order had been up with release of Cry For Me/Easy, they still would’ve released “single” (format) releases on Spotify as pre orders don’t currently operate on that app. C) Consequences is a single from her debut album & peaked at #51, however it received radio impact & a music video which is what declared it as a single. It’s not about chart positions, it’s about the songs that received single treatment. D) I haven’t made any edits this month. That was another user you lied about being me. RobbieN007 (talk) 20:44, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Senorita

Shouldn't Senorita be counted as the lead single of Romance because it came before Liar & Shameless? — Preceding unsigned comment added by T0mRiddlee (talk • contribs) 01:17, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

It was never promoted as a single from the album, "Romance". Therefore, it should not be listed in the singles section.CountyCountry (talk) 00:40, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

EASY AND CRY FOR ME ARE NOT SINGLES

This is not an opinion, it's the truth. "Easy" and "Cry for Me" were NOT sent to any radio worldwide, those are NOT SINGLES. Just promotional tracks. The fact that Camila herself called them singles doesn't change that. She meant promotional singles. Stop changing that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:B07:6456:34C7:D9EA:995A:E019:CC2A (talk) 11:44, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

@CountyCountry @Miaow reply to this please. Best regards. RobbieN007 (talk) 12:35, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

@RobbieN007: Any claims need reliable sources. Not all singles are sent to radio, lots of stations pick up singles themselves. If the horses mouth says its a single then its a single. She did not call them promotional singles. [User:Lil-unique1|→ Lil-℧niquԐ1]] - (Talk) - 12:38, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Why do publishers (or the horses mouth as you say) decide what Camila’s singles are? Publishers have listed songs such as “imagine” by Ariana or “Future Nostalgia” by Dua Lipa as “new singles”, however are deemed promo singles by Wikipedia. Why aren’t you following this same consensus for Camila? Other mainstream artists aren’t using the word “promo single” anymore (Dua Lipa never specified “Future Nostalgia” as a promo single), so if Cry for Me/Easy weren’t sent to radios, what is your actual logic behind them being singles? I would appreciate your insight on this matter. RobbieN007 (talk) 16:18, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

https://twitter.com/camila_cabello/status/1179417708468813824?s=21 This link pretty much explains her plan for the album. Her manager even explained they’re not releasing “singles” they’re releasing “songs”. https://twitter.com/camila_cabello/status/1182090819685224448?s=21 This is a link to when she announced Easy. It’s not deemed as “my new single”. I’ve had a few people be quite rude to me about this topic, but I’m just inquiring why there’s a different consensus when Camila releases a promo single in comparison to Ariana Grande or Dua Lipa. RobbieN007 (talk) 16:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Start a WP:RFC if you feel that passionate about it. → Lil-℧niquԐ1 - (Talk) - 09:35, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

I totally agree that Cry For Me and Easy are not singles. Just because “reliable sources” used the word single to describe them that does not mean they really are. The songs didn’t get promotion as real singles get and her label never confirmed the songs as singles. And yes, Ariana and Dua released songs that “reliable sources” called singles, but they were listed as promotional singles. This edition is wrong Pedro Henrique Coelho (talk) 21:44, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

@Pedro Henrique Coelho: Thank you for bringing Grande's discography here: songs like Love is Everything, Snow in California, Brand New You, Jason's song and many of her others songs weren't sent to radio but they are listed as Singles per discussion (RfC). It's the same here and the best example to show you that singles no need radio. Miaow 21:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Page protection

@Ad Orientem: Can you protect this article? It looks like the debate over what's a single and what's not is still ongoing. IP and newly registered editors are on the article every single day restoring/removing/arguing like it's a tug of war. It's disruptive. Ss112 18:51, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

 Declined I'm not seeing enough disruption to justify page protection for now. But I will remind editors to be mindful of edit warring and to respect WP:BRD. Content disputes need to be resolved on the talk page. If anyone is not getting that message point them to this comment. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:25, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

All those reviews are the same ones averaged by Metacritic which says favorable reviews. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Jordanpf93 (talk) 04:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Critical Reception

This might just be a minor thing, but as far as critical reception goes, we should consider the ratings “positive”, “mixed”, or “negative” based on the collection of reviews from an aggregate website since they score the reviews and then average them right? So if Metacritic, for example, says that Romance scores a 71 which is “generally favorable reviews”, why is it allowed that editors change that to “mixed reviews”? Just curiosity. The court of public opinion doesn’t hold much weight against a verifiable source saying the opposite. Jordanpf93 (talk) 05:58, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

I have a question regarding the critical reception section. If the aggregate score reads favorable reviews, shouldn’t the article reflect generally positive reviews rather than mixed? Jordanpf93 (talk) 02:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I have a question regarding the critical reception section. If the aggregate score reads favorable reviews, shouldn’t the article reflect generally positive reviews rather than mixed? Jordanpf93 (talk) 02:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

@Jordanpf93: Hi Jordan. It takes into account all the reviews mentioned there, that's why it's mixed. Regards. Miaow 03:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Page locked

I have full-protected the page for two days just to get you all to come to the talk page and work this out. The slow-motion edit warring has got to stop, and telling the other person in an edit summary to use the talk page (without using it yourself) is not how it works. Talk here. Explain what you feel should or should not be in the article, showing your evidence/references. If you do not have evidence/references, your edits should not be in the article. -- MelanieN (talk) 00:26, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

The status of "First Man"

Two days ago, Cabello released the music video for the track "First Man", after giving it a high-profile Grammy performance earlier in the year. The same day, it was added to Cool New Music on AllAccess: [13], [14] (screenshots for those who don't have an AllAccess account). MTV, NME and Radio.com also reported the song as a single. Should it be listed as the seventh single from the album? (Ping Miaow, CountyCountry, Lil-unique1, livelikemusic).--NØ 16:47, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes. It received an independent release in the form of a music video months after the album and also was added to radio. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 16:50, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes. It should. Miaow 17:35, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it's a single. CountyCountry (talk) 21:11, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

No, it should not. First Man was not sent to radios. Plus, receiving a music video does not make it an official single, there are many songs out there with music videos that are not official singles, she only released a music video as a tribute to her father, which she communicated her fans she intended to months ago. First Man is not a single and there were no official sources confirming it as a single. Pedro Henrique Coelho (talk) 21:35, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

"there were no official sources confirming it as a single"; then what are the three I linked above?--NØ 06:54, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

The official sources to confirm the song as a single are her label, management and promotion team. MTV and other media sources are not 100% reliable, since they have nothing to do with the singer herself. Once again, receiving a music video does not make a song a single. Otherwise Ariana Grande’s “Imagine” would be a single too. http://www.mtv.com/news/3106557/ariana-grande-imagine-new-single-denial/amp/ Pedro Henrique Coelho (talk) 16:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Imagine did not receive a music video if that’s what I made it seem above. What I meant was that MTV also mentioned the song as a single, but when listed on Wikipedia it says promotional single. Pedro Henrique Coelho (talk) 16:31, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS (read this) is not a valid argument. And no, confirmation from a primary source has never been required to confirm a single release. First Man has received the full single treatment (performances, video, radio) and has been called a single in several sources. Unless Cabello or her management tweets out specifically that First Man wasn't a single, I'm not seeing any proof otherwise.--NØ 17:09, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

'First Man' was serviced to radios on Father's Day weekend. It wasn't given a radio impact date. Servicing & impacting are two completely different things. In addition to this, the Grammy performance was done all the way back in January, 5 months before it received a music video/radio service date, to assume there's a correlation between the Grammy performance & music video/radio service is hard to believe. That's extremely staggered promotion for the song if so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 22:44, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

'My Oh My': "Digital and streaming edition bonus track"

'My Oh My' is on physical copies too. It's on the first vinyl release of the album, which just came out last month, & it's also been added to a new version of the 'Romance' CD: https://camilacabello.tmstor.es/cart/product.php?id=58523 (see tracklisting for the vinyl & it also states the vinyl comes with a quote "full 14 track CD"). Seems inaccurate to define 'My Oh My' as a "digital and streaming bonus track" when it exists on multiple physical copies too. Perhaps just "bonus track"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobbieN007 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

RfC - Singles from Romance

This RfC aims to identify which songs should be listed as singles from the Romance era, specifically regarding "Cry for Me", "Easy" and "First Man".

• Option A - "Shameless", "Liar", "Cry for Me", "Easy", "Living Proof", "My Oh My" and "First Man" should all be listed as singles, in that order.
• Option B - Only "Shameless", "Liar", "Cry for Me", "Easy", "Living Proof" and "My Oh My" should be listed as singles.
• Option C - Only "Shameless", "Liar", "Living Proof" and "My Oh My" should be listed as singles.

Please cast your votes in the votes section below with an optional brief comment. But use only the threaded discussion section to have any large back-and-forth arguments.--NØ 18:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Votes

Option B- All of those 6 songs where clearly released as singles on iTunes. But about First Man I'm not sure anymore, so I researched for myself and found this: after the album's release FM was made available for US Pop, Hot AC and Rhythmyc radio on June, but there is currently no radio impact date for the song. So I think I prefer Option B--Miaow 20:58, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Option A- "First Man" is a single because reliable sources have called them so.[15][16] Same goes for "Cry for Me" and "Easy"; reliable sources have called them singles as well. Also, a little off topic, but I believe that "Liar" should be listed before "Shameless" because of alphabetical order (they were released at the same time), unless a reliable source calls "Shameless" the first single and "Liar" the second single. CountyCountry (talk) 01:41, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Option A- Per evidence that "First Man" received radio adds to three formats in the United States ([17], [18]) along with some other single-like promotion, and all the strong arguments presented for "Cry for Me" and "Easy" being singles in the above sections and by CountyCountry.--NØ 10:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Option B- Being sent to radio does not make “First Man” a single, otherwise many songs such as “Future Nostalgia” by Dua Lipa would be listed as singles. And one more thing, Camila only presented the song live twice, one was for an Apple Music event and the Grammy’s, which does not make it an official single too. Ariana Grande performed “Imagine” more than once (including at the Grammy’s) and it’s not a single from her album. And I have sources saying “First Man” isn’t a single.

https://www.omelete.com.br/amp/musica/camila-cabello-first-man-video (this is a Brazilian reliable source)

https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/camila-cabello-first-man-music-video-47562706/amp (“First Man” is called a “track” here)

https://headlineplanet.com/home/2020/06/21/camila-cabello-shares-touching-first-man-video-in-celebration-of-fathers-day-watch-now/ (it’s called a “track” once again, not a single) WAL209 (talk) 11:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Threaded discussion

Option B or C - First Man is obviously not a single. About Easy and Cry For Me, I still think it’s debatable, because I’m not sure if they’re singles or not, since none of them were sent to radio, they were only performed on love night shows, but once again, I’m not sure. Pedro Henrique Coelho (talk) 23:39, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

• live night shows (I’m sorry for that mistake) Pedro Henrique Coelho (talk) 23:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

As I explained to you before, a song no need radio to be a single. Cry For Me and Easy were released for sale on iTunes as singles.--Miaow 00:20, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

 Checkuser note: Pedro Henrique Coelho and WAL209 above are  Confirmed to be the same user. Mz7 (talk) 03:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Revisiting "My Oh My" as a single

As RobbieN007 pointed out above, "My Oh My" is on physical copies of the album now. I would like to make the case that this means it is not a bonus track, but instead a song that was simply made after the first batch of physical copies were printed, for the following reasons:

1. It is not denoted as a bonus track on the album, nor is it at the beginning or end of the tracklisting where bonus tracks typically go.
2. Multiple sources refer to song as being part of the album and do not say it's an exclusive or anything

• • Billboard "Cabello's hit from her Romance album"
  • Forbes "its sixth and most recent single 'My Oh My' with rapper DaBaby was driven to a top 40 spot on the Billboard Hot 100 despite its initial release as an album cut"
  • MTV "One of the standout cuts on Camila Cabello's new album Romance is a playful slice of reggaeton-inspired pop called 'My Oh My.'" and "'My Oh My' is already a fan favorite from Cabello's Romance"
  • Rolling Stone "Romance track gets the glossy Dave Meyers video treatment"
  • Vulture "In 14 songs, Romance offers a dozen musings on the journey of falling for someone" and "Romance is a concept album almost too tuned into its concept; tellingly, the songs that stray from the path are the ones where things heat up. 'My Oh My,'"
  • The Fader "It also features a new collaboration with DaBaby titled “My Oh My.”"
  • Variety "'My Oh My' featuring 2019 breakout artist DaBaby, is yet another song from the album gaining attention"

I would like to propose moving it to the main section of the tracklist and noting that it was not present on initial pressings of the album as it does not look like a bonus track, but rather a song made too late for the initial pressings of the album.

CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 17:01, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Considering it appears as part of the standard edition of Romance on iTunes, Spotify, as well as YouTube, I'm inclined to agree we can promote it to a standard edition track. It being absent on some CDs seems to be an exception rather than the rule. Should this happen it would also, thus, be included as the sixth single in the infobox.--NØ 18:24, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Considering there seems to be a disagreement on the My Oh My page stemming from this I would like to ask when these changes can be made to the page, as no one else has weighed in after over a week and the back-and-forth editing is still going on. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 15:54, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

After this edit and this edit, it's obvious H9v9n9 and MotherofSnakes are in favor of listing My Oh My as a single from the album too. That's at least four of us, and none of the editors in prior discussions about this album's singles had an issue with it being there either. That's more than enough consensus to add it back.

So the listed singles should be:

• "Liar"

Released: September 5, 2019

• "Shameless"

Released: September 5, 2019

• "Cry for Me"

Released: October 4, 2019

• "Easy"

Released: October 11, 2019

• "Living Proof"

Released: November 15, 2019

• "My Oh My"

Released: January 6, 2020

• "First Man"

Released: June 21, 2020

Now let's permanently put this discussion to bed. Thanks.--NØ 16:07, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

senorita

hello, i wanna know the reason why senorita is not sinlge of Romance album? Arismauve (talk) 23:13, 19 March 2024 (UTC)