Jump to content

Talk:Bakarkhani

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2600:1001:b02e:e15c:61ce:670e:bf59:56f7 (talk) at 16:42, 11 March 2020 (→‎We have a consensus here). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WikiProject iconBangladesh Stub‑class Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Bangladesh, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bangladesh on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BangladeshWikipedia:WikiProject BangladeshTemplate:WikiProject BangladeshBangladesh articles
StubThis article has been rated as Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject Bangladesh To-do list:

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://dhakadailyphoto.blogspot.it/2007/09/dhakai-bakarkhani-and-legend.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Recipes

Where are recipes Singh4455 (talk) 16:04, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not a cookbook, so there shouldn't be any recipes in the article. Recipes can be posted to the Wikimeda Cookbook. Ibadibam (talk) 16:43, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced POV pushing by Gotitbro

User:Gotitbro has been repeatedly reverting edits to restore his own preferred version that replaces "Bangladesh" with "India" throughout the article and has been removing reliable sources from Banglapedia by calling them unreliable. He has not provided a single source for his edits but pushing his POV repeatedly despite being explained in the edit summaries. Za-ari-masen (talk) 04:02, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Za-ari-masen: Your problematic edits that conflate Bengal with Bangladesh have already been reverted by multiple editors including admins. To claim the exact thing your are doing and projecting that onto me highly is ridiculous. I don't need to provide source to revert clear POV which you are looking to brute force by engaging in highly disruptive editing on multiple articles. Gotitbro (talk) 04:31, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Gotitbro, not only you have been discarding the reliable sources in the article but also rejecting the importance of providing a source for your edits, that in itself reflects your disruptive behaviour. You have been involved in a similar unsourced POV pushing in different articles with multiple users and have been doing so for a while now. I don't know where I have been warned by an admin as you are talking about, but I think it's high time an admin decision is imposed on you. Za-ari-masen (talk) 04:41, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Za-ari-mase: Not sure where you are coming with your ridiculous allegations, all of which pretty seriously apply to yourself. Your similar edits were revrted on Shorshe Ilish by an admin who had already explained on the Talk page the dispute (nowhere do I say you were warned by an admin). If you are so smug about having me "done under" for my edits go ahead and report me, you probably won't come unscathed for you edits. Also you coatraking users more disposed to your edits is simply not done, you clearly do not want to engage in any discussion but brute force edits that cater to your liking. Gotitbro (talk) 04:50, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You have just been blocked for your edit-warring in this article. Please quit this battleground attitude and make constructive edits when you return. Za-ari-masen (talk) 04:58, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Banglapedia is used in majority of Bangladesh-related articles and even has a Template:Cite Banglapedia on Wikipedia. Bakarkhani originates from Eastern Bengal e.g. modern day Bangladesh, not India. I agree with Za-ari-masen and think that Gotitbro needs to stop edit-warring. UserNumber (talk) 13:54, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Utcursch, El C, Huon, and Gotitbro: I just carefully reread the Banglapedia article again; nowhere does it say the origin is in Dhaka or present-day Bangladesh/East Bengal. Here is the link to the article, the first paragraph clearly states the following: "a food-product peculiar to Dhaka city... original home of this bread or biscuit is Afghanistan or beyond". Nowhere does it say the origin is Dhaka or Bangladesh/East Bengal. Also, the Times of India article, which Za-ari-masen removed from his version, states, the following: "There are a few new variants of the bakarkhani though, that trace their origin to Bangladesh and Kashmir. As you can observe, there is zero source for the sole claim of Dhaka or Bangladesh/East Bengal. What we know is, it is a dish inspired by Central Asian Muslim migrants to medieval India, just like General Tso's chicken is inspired by Chinese migrants to North America. The version that @Gotitbro: reverted is the best version. (This also shows the problematic edits of Za-ari-masen, they use words like "preferred", "favorite" or "peculiar" and constructs it as origin to Dhaka or Bangladesh. As can be seen with chomchom, the Banglapedia there only stated it was a favorite in Tangail, to use that as a statement to claim origin, thankfully @Utcursch: caught that.) As you can see, Za-ari-masen is falsifying the sources. Please read the Banglapedia source on Bakorkhani and Times of India article on Bakorkhani and be the judge yourself. (96.240.28.30 (talk) 18:44, 10 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]
What do you think "peculiar" means? Did you take a look at other sources in the article, Muntasir Mamun (July 2006). Dhaka Smriti-Bismritir Nogori; Nazir Hussain (April 1995). Kingbodontir Dhaka and others? Did you even have any glance over the history section of the article? Za-ari-masen (talk) 09:42, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They said it was once peculiar as in hundreds of years ago when it first arrived. The term "Bakarkhani" originates from Eastern Bengal and was not used in Central Asia.UserNumber (talk) 13:18, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"peculiar" means odd or curious, not origin. If they meant origin, they would have said it. Your entire argument was based on Banglapedia article, now it is falling apart. Now trying to dodge with some obscure names without any link or a direct quote like I did is being disingenuous. @Utcursch, El C, Huon, and Gotitbro: please see what they are doing, kindly intervene as admins. (96.240.28.30 (talk) 13:24, 11 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]
The Bakarkhani word is Bengali not in a Central Asian language. The main argument here is whether it is Indian or Bangladeshi and it is very clear Old Dhaka and the other regions mentioned in the article are part of Eastern Bengal which is Bangladesh (apart from Kashmir which is of course Pakistani not Bangladeshi). @User:Alivardi, what do you think? UserNumber (talk) 14:49, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion seems to be getting pretty intense and I think it's worth reminding that we should keep things civil here. I also have to disagree with the idea that Banglapedia is not rs; the articles are written by academics and it's partially funded by UNESCO. While the Banglapedia article does state that the dish originated in Afghanistan etc., I don't believe anything beyond a cursory mention of is necessary, with the "History" section being the most appropriate place in my opinion. Bakarkhani's South Asian association and name warrants that that aspect be the focus of the lead. Also note that as per Merriam-Webster, peculiar can be defined as "characteristic of only one person, group, or thing : DISTINCTIVE".[1]
Alivardi (talk) 16:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
See also our sister project's definition: "Common or usual for a certain place or circumstance; specific or particular." To say that something is "peculiar to Dhaka" means it would have a strong association with Dhaka, and might usually be found only there. Ibadibam (talk) 22:06, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
By that definition, it is even less of a valid statement to say the origin is solely from Dhaka. Per the sources, the name of the dish comes from the adopted son of the Nawab of Bengal, Murshid Quli Khan, the family ruled from Murshidabad in West Bengal, India. Plus, per the sources above, there are three major variants, Kashmiri (India/Pakistan administered), Awadi (India) and Bengali (India and Bangladesh) (Also, as a Sylheti, I was shocked none of these sources mentioned the Indian Sylheti version, which is eaten by most on a regular basis in the Barak Valley; we Sylhetis are so proud of our Syhleti version, we have a myth, in which we think our homeland, Barak Valley is named after this dish. Again, most likely a myth.) I agree with Alivardi, this is a dish from the subcontinent -- state the various versions like Kashmiri, Awadi and Bengali in the lead, and put the various origin story in the history section. The truth is, so many versions exist of this dish, and with few sources, it is like the Balkan wars over Ćevapi, with very few sources. (But, keeping my fingers crossed someone will find a source for the Sylheti version from Barak valley.) I will leave this to other experienced users to discuss further for the next few days. Thank you all! 96.240.28.30 (talk) 23:29, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am Sylheti as well and I did come across a source which vaguely mentioned its origin there and I added to the end of the history section as well. However, most sources say that its origin is in Eastern Bengal, specifically Dhaka, and spread to other parts of the Indian subcontinent (Sylhet, Awadh, Kashmir). Of course if we find the other theories we can put them there but for now we should stick to Dhaka as that currently has the most sources. Murshidabad has nothing to with this; the adopted son was working in Eastern Bengal and Murshidabadis and West Bengalis don't even claim it themselves.UserNumber (talk) 11:30, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I found some sources will add more information later on.UserNumber (talk) 11:42, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]


@El C: Za-ari-masen is continuing WP:EW on this page after coming off from a block without gaining consensus first. NavjotSR (talk) 15:43, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2020

2001:16A2:514C:DB41:BC1A:6528:6805:A135 (talk) 14:26, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

i need to remove one Category

Which category do you want to remove and why? RudolfRed (talk) 19:19, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:31, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We have a consensus here

Please don't replace "Bangladesh" with Indian subcontinent as the origin place without any discussion. We have already reached a consensus that the bread originated in Bangladesh according to the reliable sources. Za-ari-masen (talk) 15:46, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

information Administrator note if it really does prove there's consensus for your changes, Za-ari-masen, I will supplant the second partial block (which still allows you to edit this article talk page, by the way) which I just applied to your account with a strong warning against further edit warring. It does seem as if the onus is on you to demonstrate that consensus has been actually achieved, though. El_C 15:56, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@El C:, please take a look at the thread above, Talk:Bakarkhani#Unsourced_POV_pushing_by_Gotitbro. Also, if you remember, I did predict in your talkpage that IPs and accounts with few edits would appear to reinstate the unsourced version and this is exactly what is happening. Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:06, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd rather you prove it to me here, in this thread — which you are so far failing to do. El_C 16:09, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
pinging @UserNumber: who was the neutral participant in the dispute. Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:09, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@El C:, this was the last comment of the thread after which UserNumber edited the article based on the consensus and none of the participants objected. That essentially makes it a consensus.Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:15, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Za-ari-masen, fair enough. Now I just need you to demonstrate you understand how what vandalism is not applies to this dispute, after which you could be unblocked. Also, NavjotSR has concerns, which I would like you to address, as well. El_C 16:23, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@El C: This was acceptable, what Username put, but Za-ari-masen went on replacing with Bangladesh here. Also, the sources listed state Sylhet region as an origin. Which is divided between both India and Bangladesh. Which Za-ari-masen also excluded, and removed the source. 2600:1001:B02E:E15C:61CE:670E:BF59:56F7 (talk) 16:26, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@El C:, I fully understand what constitutes vandalism, if you still believe I'm incompetent about the policies I will again make thorough reads on those pages. What happened here is, IPs from the ISP are making the same unsourced POV edits even after discussions that made me feel like they were disruptive and not good faith edits. Perhaps, I was wrong. For NavjotSR, I would refer to the source from Banglapedia. If there is any confusion over interpretation of the source, I would refer to the discussion in the thread mentioned above. Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:29, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You do not fully understand it if you label this content dispute "obvious vandalism" — what is obvious to me, is that it is not obvious. As for NavjotSR, I would rather you two had a more substantive conversation. Please stop referring us to the lengthy thread above per se. — that is unhelpful. Summarize what you need to and/or point to specific diffs from that thread. I need more pointed, detailed and better-documented responses from you, overall. El_C 16:40, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Again, Banglapedia does not confirm the origin. It states the popularity, the other sources three sources mentions Sylhet region and Kashmir;[1][2][3] Sylhet is divided between India and Bangladesh and Kashmir between India and Pakistan. 2600:1001:B02E:E15C:61CE:670E:BF59:56F7 (talk) 16:38, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Muhammad Abu Talib (28 Feb 2015). "ঐতিহ্যের বাকরখানি যাচ্ছে বিদেশে". The Daily Ittefaq (in Bengali).
  2. ^ "বাকরখানি: অমর প্রেমের কাহিনী". The Daily Janakatha (in Bengali). 21 Jan 2017.
  3. ^ https://m.timesofindia.com/Bakarkhani-only-a-sweet-memory-now/articleshow/45159577.cms?
Did you even take a look at those Bengali sources? All of them are actually stating Bakarkhani is a dish from Old Dhaka complete opposite of what you are arguing. Za-ari-masen (talk) 16:41, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bakarkhani&oldid=945067870"