Talk:List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication

Taylor Hawkins

I am adding him, but suspect better cites will become available. --PaulinSaudi (talk) 22:38, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

About candidates

Can people from pre 19th century be added to the list? Manavati (talk) 21:11, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Potentially, assuming reliable sources of course. Which is difficult since the concept of a drug overdose is a modern one. Damien Linnane (talk) 01:24, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Deaths from drugs.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Tempe Girl

Hi 4meter4. Regarding your edit here [1], I understand what you're saying, but doesn't the fact the person has enough media coverage to warrant a Wikipedia article confirm their notability? This is a list of 'notable' deaths, not just celebrities. Tens of thousands of regular people suicide from drugs every year, but few of those gather considerable media coverage. One of those that did is Suicide of Kelly Yeomans, and it is in the list. What are your thoughts on her inclusion in the list? Is she notable? I'm interested to hear what other people think about this change too. Damien Linnane (talk) 23:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

@ Damien Linnane, the existence of a wikipedia article does not necessarily guarantee that an article meets the criteria at WP:N. Articles get created routinely which do not meet our notability criteria which is why we have a busy group of dedicated editors at WP:AFD. If you had looked at the Tempe Girl article recently, you would have noticed that there is an on-going discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tempe Girl (2nd nomination) where there is currently an early consensus for deletion. I have no opinion on the Yeomans article because I have not looked at the sourcing for the article in relation to our notability guidelines. Best.4meter4 (talk) 00:35, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@ 4meter4, I actually had looked at the article recently, though it's not on my watchlist, so I didn't notice that you nominated it for deletion yourself just minutes after your edit removing reference to it from this article. It certainly looks like your nomination will result in deletion, so I'm not going to contest this further. Damien Linnane (talk) 12:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

John Dye

Actor John Dye's autopsy is available online, it states that he passed from acute meth intoxication. I don't know how to add people to the list so thought I would add this here. 170.253.205.26 (talk) 20:30, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. I've added him to the list. Damien Linnane (talk) 02:45, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Sticky headers

Note: First part of thread was initially on a user talk page. Moved here so others can participate.

Thanks for your explanation here: [2]. Now that I know what you're doing, I can appreciate your edit. It's hard to appreciate something when you don't know why it's been added, and it breaks the formatting. It's also difficult to know it only breaks the formatting on one browser when no links or explanations are provided. If you had linked Template:Sticky header in the initial edit summary, I wouldn't have complained as that would have told me what I needed to know. I'm not as adept at table formatting as you are, so I couldn't figure out what you were doing. Have a nice day. Damien Linnane (talk) 06:27, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Understood. I have been adding Template:Sticky header sometimes to the edit summary. I will add it every time from now on. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Actually I owe you an apology here; you did link it originally. There were many new edits and I lost track of things trying to figure out which of the edits broke the table. I do appreciate your edits to the table overall. It looked like it was a lot of work and the body of the table is indeed much better now. So thanks. Damien Linnane (talk) 12:00, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Table caption

Note: First part of thread was initially on a user talk page. Moved here so others can participate.

I strongly disagree with your edit here though: [3]. It's unnecessary because the table is the entire subject of the article. There's only two things in the List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. The lead, and the list itself. Even if someone is using a screen reader, common sense would dictate that the table on the 'List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication' is the List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. Damien Linnane (talk) 06:31, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

That is exactly what I used to believe, but after more study I now religiously add captions to tables I work on. Table captions are required for people using screen readers. See: Help:Table#Captions and summaries. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:43, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

@Timeshifter: That guideline says table captions are recommended, not required. My argument stands that I believe in this isolated case, it's unnecessary due to being obvious. You haven't explained why that shouldn't be the case. Saying that 'after more study' you add captions 'religiously' is only a factual statement of your behaviour. It's not a logical argument for why it's necessary here.

More importantly, I refer to this edit of yours: [4]. You're very aware your contested change was reverted, yet you reinstated it anyway. The relevant policy here is WP:BRD, not "WP:BRRD": WP:AIN has held many times that once an edit is reverted, the ONUS is on the person wanting the change to seek consensus for the change on the talk page. It is not acceptable to edit war it back in.

I did not just revert without explanation, I linked to the guidelines. See diff. For most people that is enough.

After a blind person with a screen reader said it mattered, I followed the recommendation. You should too. See:

https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H39

It is linked from:

See: Help:Table#Captions and summaries.

--Timeshifter (talk) 07:56, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

You only linked to an optional recommendation. Once you're aware something is contested, the established norm on Wikipedia is to discuss it on the talk page, rather than reinstating it with a new justification.

Yes, I think captions for blind people is a great idea. I think it's extremely important in an article, especially one that may have multiple tables, or a table that does not have the same title as the article itself. However, this isn't an article, it's a list that consists only of a table and an introduction. I think its pointless on this particular case because when one opens a list that is titled 'List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication', they would expect to find a List of deaths from drug overdose and intoxication. This reminds me of those warning labels on peanut butter saying it contains peanuts. It's really not necessary, becasue what else would you expect to find. When something is only recommended, that's acknowledging that a one-size fits all approach is not always the best answer. I understand what the guideline recommends. However, is there an established consensus or guideline for explicitly captioning a list that only consists of a table, where the contents of that table will be obvious from the name of the list? If there is, I'll happily reinstate it. If not, I think it's better without it. Damien Linnane (talk) 11:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Image caption

Your proposed wording has poor grammar. It violates MOS:NUMNOTES. It contains unnecessary and embarrassing over-detail. All humans have good understanding of the size of small denomination coins, let alone arguably one of the world's most famous. In the extremely unlikely event that some person wants to know the exact measurements of a US penny, they can click on the Wikilink provided. Damien Linnane (talk) 07:12, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I did not just revert. I addressed your concerns. See diff. And I made changes like using the old reference format (with additions).

So people know what is being talked about:

Fentanyl. 2 mg (white powder to the right) is a lethal dose in most people. US penny is 19 mm (0.75 in) wide.

References

You are the first person to complain about this concerning this image caption. From the Commons image page is this:

"This image has currency in it to indicate scale.

"Using coins for scale is discouraged as it will require people unfamiliar with them to look up the dimensions or guess, both of which defeat the purpose of the object in the first place. Coins can also reinforce a geographical bias, and some coins' designs are copyrighted.

"Ideally, a photograph should include a ruler with the subject (example) or an added scale marking. SI ("metric") units are the most commonly used worldwide (see meter and centimeter)."

As for the grammar, feel free to correct it.

--Timeshifter (talk) 07:58, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I did not just revert. I addressed your concerns.

That is not a true statement. You did not address my concerns. You addressed a single one of them (the referencing). You didn't address the others, and you even reinstated the MOS:NUMNOTES violation despite the fact I explicitly pointed the issue out.

As for the grammar, feel free to correct it.

I do keep correcting it, and then you keep reverting my corrections.

Thanks for pointing out the NoCoins policy on Commons. That was something I was previously unfamiliar with. In that case I'll happily reinstate that part.

Pointing out that someone is the first person to complain about something is not a valid criticism in itself. It shouldn't be assumed that there is a tacit consensus just because nobody has believed something can be done better. Damien Linnane (talk) 11:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)