Talk:Bushfires in Australia

Merge proposal

There is no reason to maintain a separate Bushfires in Victoria article - it creates unnecessary duplication. Bushfires in Victoria are just the same as bushfires everywhere else in the southern part of the continent. No reason for its own article. Relevant information should be merged to this article, with individual bushfires forked to List of Australian bushfires, or if that becomes too large (it wouldn't be at this stage, but would be if the list were expanded to include more historical fires), further fork to List of Victorian bushfires, etc. Please discuss below. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 10:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with merge proposal as detailed above. No need for a separate article.--Dmol (talk) 12:02, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

• Strong Oppose Firefighting in Victoria is the responsibility of two Victorian state authorites the Country Fire Authority and the Victorian Department of Sustainability and Environment. Bushfire policy and plannning and emergency management are responsibilities of the Victorian state government, major disasters are investigated by Victorian state royal commissions, statistics are compliled by Victorian state authorities and departments. The subject is independently notable, and has a large reservoir of state-based current and historical sources to draw upon for expansion.--Melburnian (talk) 12:47, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

• What you just mentioned is about all the information you'd need in a subheading "Victoria" in a national article. It's the same in South Australia. The CFS deals with rural firefighting, the MFS deals with urban firefighting, National Parks and Wildlife deals with park maintenance and backburning, all are centrally co-ordinated during incidents from FireSA on Gouger Street.... this can all be very neatly dealt with by having a national article which links to each state-based department and "list of" statistics page for greater detail. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 21:32, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

• A comprehensive article is preferable to a subheading, links and lists.Melburnian (talk)

I would consider that a point in favour of an Australia-wide article. Much of what is in the Victorian article is equally applicable to the rest of Australia, and that which isn't could be much better dealt with in its own articles, a la Country Fire Service.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 07:08, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Or for that matter, Country Fire Authority, which the current article inexplicably doesn't even link to.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 07:12, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

It's simplistic to suggest linking to the state volunteer fire department to cover the topic of bushfires in a state when the topic is much broader than supression, covering land management, planning and legislation for the major part determined at state level as well as the extensive historical information.--Melburnian (talk) 13:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

This article currently deals with: Description of bushfires (2 paragraphs), description of Victorian terrain (1 paragraph), causes of bushfires (2 paragraphs), fire warnings (1 paragraphs), list of Victorian bushfires (28 paragraphs, with a separate "most deadly" section with 23 dot points), and a bit of original research re: death tolls (3 paragraphs). Bushfire suppression agencies? Zero paragraphs. Bushfire prevention strategies? Zero paragraphs. Bushfire related legislation? Zero paragraphs. In short, it contains nothing that would even give it an argument for remaining a standalone article.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 21:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

What you are describing is the quality of the article as at October 2010. The question here is the notability of the topic "Bushfires in Victoria", which is clearly notable as a stand-alone subject. [1] [2] Melburnian (talk) 23:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

A google search and a vic library page on historical Vic bushfires don't in any way demonstrate that bushfires in Victoria are any different to bushfires in the rest of Australia. If you can fix the article so that it does demonstrate the notability and uniqueness of Vic bushfires, I'll gladly support it as a standalone. That's hypothetical. It currently does not warrant its own article. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 00:15, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually the State Library of Victoria site comprises 14 pages and in addition to covering resources related to historical fires in Victoria it also covers resources on current information from state authorities and media, reports and state legislation.Melburnian (talk) 02:34, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Changes look really good; Victorian article actually looks like it could and should survive on its own now, since you've made it about bushfire policies / management in Victoria rather than any supposed uniqueness of Vic. bushfires as the article previously seemed to assert. I withdraw the merge proposal. Possibly use the article as a loose template for the creation of other state bushfire management pages? --Yeti Hunter (talk) 05:49, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think the same approach can be taken for other states; it frees this article from having to give six or more different versions for each facet of management, legislation and planning related to bushfires.Melburnian (talk) 06:46, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Agree. The Vic article is looking good and opens the door for similar treatment in sister articles for the other states. –Moondyne 12:46, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Lead sentence

I find the uncited lead sentence asserting that Aussie bushfires are the most frequent in the world quite suspect, especially in light of data like this. I'm looking for a nice citation that sums up the unique characteristics of bushfire in Australia as opposed to elsewhere in the world, perhaps something like "characterised by their intensity and relatively short duration". This page from the CSIRO gets close, and can certainly be used, but it doesn't quite do it for the lead sentence. Any suggestions?--Yeti Hunter (talk) 06:25, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Removed and replaced. –Moondyne 12:46, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Missing information

A major victorian fire has been missed here - South Gippsland (Mount Best) Six children died all from the one family, the Lonsdale family. The most ever from the one immediate family in the history of Australian bushfires. Four other people also died. Ten in total to the small community — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.209.140.254 (talk) 09:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Is there a good source that we could reference to justify adding this material? HiLo48 (talk) 11:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

By LesM Sources as follows: Memorial located at Mt Best South Gippsland http://www.panoramio.com/photo/45767971

Reference newspaper - The Advertiser, SA - Tuesday 30 January 1906 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5002919?searchTerm= (lonsdale gippsland) date:[1900 TO 1925]&searchLimits=l-australian=y — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.209.140.145 (talk) 11:58, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

New section: climate change

I've gone ahead and created a new section with some basic background info. I thought it was relevant, esp considering the recent media coverage of Greg Hunt citing Wikipedia.