Talk:The Tortured Poets Department

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A fact from The Tortured Poets Department appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 February 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Taylor Swift announced her upcoming eleventh studio album, The Tortured Poets Department, while accepting a Grammy for her album Midnights?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Tortured Poets Department.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 05:16, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Taylor Swift announced her upcoming eleventh studio album, The Tortured Poets Department, while accepting a Grammy for her album Midnights? Source: The New York Times
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Carachipampa
- Comment: this woman's work ethic omg

Created by Louwasrobbed (talk). Nominated by MaranoFan (talk) at 17:19, 5 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/The Tortured Poets Department; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Article is new and long enough (created today, RPS 2545 B). Sourcing looks good to me and Earwig checks out (only flagged bits are the direct quotes, which are cited and correctly attributed). Hook is interesting and cited inline in the article. QPQ has been completed. Looks good to go. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With 256 Edits and 122 editors over two days so this article is not stable. Lightburst (talk) 01:59, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will promote this, the article is looking stable now. 420k views wow. Bruxton (talk) 05:16, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Track listing

Is it necessary to split the track listing simply because the artist has showcased it this way? Also, replacing Variety for BuzzFeed News also feels quite undue? Surely the "sides" are simply how they're to be split on vinyl, but is not how they're showcased for all physical / digital formats? A simple not over complete track listing showcase would better suit the article? livelikemusic (TALK!) 18:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. A simple track listing would be better for the article. HorrorLover555 (talk) 18:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll ask the inverse - why would we list it in any other way other than how the artist has listed it? - Fuzheado | Talk 21:04, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:STATUSQUO. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the relevance. We don't synthesize our own listing style of what artists and composers put down as their structure (e.g. Symphony_No._5_(Beethoven)#Form, Akhnaten_(opera)#Synopsis, Hamilton_(musical)#Musical_numbers). We shouldn't do that here either. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:08, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because that is clearly the back cover of the vinyl, and not how the track listing will be rendered digitally (which is how the majority of consumers will listen to the album, as that accounts for something like 90+% of music consumption), nor on CD or cassette. I'm not seeing some deliberate intention on Swift's part that the album is intended solely to be a vinyl experience or that the sides are themed or the like. I believe we should go back to how the songs were listed first, per User:Livelikemusic. In fact, this discussion should be for if we should split it into vinyl sides, not if we should go back to how it was in the first place. Ss112 13:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Until the album is actually released, the points above are WP:CRYSTAL ball speculation about the vinyl format. Concluding that the grouping is not important and should be flattened constitutes original research. Both of these practices are frowned upon. Instead, we should reflect what is in the source material/artwork and what reliable sources say about it. The main recording and entertainment industry news outlets are providing not just the raw list but the "sides" groupings as well: Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, Rolling Stone, Deadline, and more.

Even more, Entertainment Weekly raises the fact that "sides" may not just be sides:

So what does it all mean? There's a lot to potentially unpack here. The sides could just be the way the vinyls shook out, or maybe each grouping tells a different story, or utilizes a different sound — this is Swift after all.

For a community that should be assembling reliable knowledge, I'm astonished to see the arguments for removal of information when there are significant signals about their significance. Reproducing the track list as Swift has released it is the most accurate, responsible, policy-adhering, and logical thing to do. - Fuzheado | Talk 16:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support restoring the original 16-track layout with no separation into vinyl sides. It's silly this is even something we're questioning. Ss112 13:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Restore the tracklist to standard layout per livelikemusic and Ss112. Dylx 16:15, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per livelikemusic WildChild300 ^{Talk to me!} 17:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I already agree with both Livelikemusic and Ss112, so Support. HorrorLover555 (talk) 03:43, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per livelikemusic's and Ss112's arguments. It makes absolutely no sense to split the tracklists in all those different parts. It's not like each side represents a unique lyrical or sonic theme that sets it apart. Lk95 (talk) 12:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your statement ventures into the area of original research. See the Entertainment Weekly [1] piece described above. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That article is speculating, using words like "potentially" and "maybe", and has nothing to do with how the track list should be formatted in the table. It may be referenced in the "Composition" section but doesn't justify a formatting change like this. Dylx 14:35, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Remove

Digitalfawn (talk) 22:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:15, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's perfectly clear what change they want to be made: remove the hatnote. It's less clear to me why they think that should be done. BlueSwede92 (talk) 01:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Album name

Technically the album is written in all caps, should we also write it that way ? It's written THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT on all official accounts. Diamant580 (talk) 18:07, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Diamant580: I don't think so. See WP:TITLEFORMAT and MOS:ALLCAPS for policies and guidelines related to using title case here. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 05:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, per MOS:MUSICCAPS, and in case it's suggested, I object to any attempt to place a pointless parenthesized "stylized in all caps" note here as well. (This practice ought to be phased out.) Ss112 08:23, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vinyl variants?

Can a list of all vinyl variants be added or is that redundant 2605:AD80:4F:91D4:60C4:CA9A:E60:8C0E (talk) 00:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Album Genre

Apple Music now lists this album as pop. If you pre add the album, just below the album cover and name it says Pop-2024. We should include this somewhere in the article. Mr Imeime (talk) 01:31, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As it stands, we should not. Genres should be supported by reliable sources (i.e. articles, reports), not consumer labels, as you suggest. EdrianJustine (talk) 01:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2024

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It is mentioned that the tortured poets only had a collector's edition for the manuscript, but it had a collector's edition for each bonus track limited edition. It should be changed. Sushiandrei (talk) 19:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]