Talk:Tren de Aragua: Difference between revisions
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NoonIcarus (talk | contribs) →Xenophobia: Source misinterpretation |
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::Totally agree that the article could do better with expanded sections from other regions. A book I can recommend is one written by journalist Ronna Rísquez about the band. --[[User:NoonIcarus|NoonIcarus]] ([[User talk:NoonIcarus|talk]]) 18:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
::Totally agree that the article could do better with expanded sections from other regions. A book I can recommend is one written by journalist Ronna Rísquez about the band. --[[User:NoonIcarus|NoonIcarus]] ([[User talk:NoonIcarus|talk]]) 18:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::;Source misinterpretation |
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::Disputed content includes the following statements: |
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::*{{tq|The gang targets Venezuelan refugees in the United States where they recruit members}} |
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::*{{tq|Their activities increased in New York City, with Tren de Aragua allying with MS-13}} |
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::*{{tq|Presence of Tren de Aragua in New York began with various phone thefts in five different counties}} |
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::All of these assertions, among others, come from a New York Post interview cited here:[https://www.el-carabobeno.com/fbi-investiga-alianza-del-tren-de-aragua-y-la-ms-13-en-nueva-york/]. The {{RSP entry|New York Post|[[New York Post]]|gu}} is generally unreliable, and its RSP entry is clear on the matter: "There is consensus that the New York Post is generally unreliable for factual reporting especially with regard to politics, particularly New York City politics. A tabloid newspaper, editors criticise its lack of concern for fact-checking or corrections, including a number of examples of outright fabrication." |
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::*{{tq|A notable brawl occurred in Times Square on 27 January 2024, with two members of the Tren de Aragua reportedly being arrested after attacking NYPD officers.}} |
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::The Associated Press article itself says in its headline: "Man charged with attacking cops in Times Square and vilified in Trump ad was misidentified, DA says". The only mention about the gang here is {{tq|ICE has ''alleged'' both are Tren de Aragua gang members.}}. This cannot be asserted in an editorial voice, and definitely shouldn't be included unless there are convictions or conclusive investigations. |
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::*{{tq|In Texas, the gang extorts Venezuelan migrants and is primarily present in El Paso.}} |
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::Nowhere in the article this is stated. Besides continuing to cite the New York Post, there are only three times when the city is mentioned: citing a FBI agent, saying that the gang allegedly uses this place as a crossing (according to the NYP), and citing a former Marshall. |
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::The article that I offered about Chicago already addresses the police reports, and responds writing: "Cops were warned to check crime suspects for tattoos linked to the El Tren de Aragua prison gang. A Sun-Times analysis found shoplifting and domestic violence arrests, but little proof of the gang’s presence among migrants." |
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::All of this, along with [[WP:NOTNEWS]] and [[WP:BLPCRIME]], leaves pretty clear that better sourcing must be used for this section. --[[User:NoonIcarus|NoonIcarus]] ([[User talk:NoonIcarus|talk]]) 23:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 23:09, 8 March 2024
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Xenophobia
@WMrapids: Hi. With recent fearmongering and hoaxes from far-right outlets such as Breitbart about Venezuelan migration, we have to be careful to use high quality sources, and not only local ones. A good example about this trend is shown by this piece by Chicago Sun-Times:
- Main, Frank; Schuba, Tom (10 November 2023). "Despite internal police alerts, scant evidence of violent gang members among Venezuelan migrants in Chicago". Chicago Sun-Times.
NoonIcarus (talk) 19:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You are actually citing an outdated article. I have already removed potential xenophobic information from the refugee article, so I understand your concerns, but the best way to improve this article would be expanding information on Latin American sections. WMrapids (talk) 17:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Totally agree that the article could do better with expanded sections from other regions. A book I can recommend is one written by journalist Ronna Rísquez about the band. --NoonIcarus (talk) 18:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Source misinterpretation
- Disputed content includes the following statements:
The gang targets Venezuelan refugees in the United States where they recruit members
Their activities increased in New York City, with Tren de Aragua allying with MS-13
Presence of Tren de Aragua in New York began with various phone thefts in five different counties
- All of these assertions, among others, come from a New York Post interview cited here:[1]. The New York Post (RSP entry) is generally unreliable, and its RSP entry is clear on the matter: "There is consensus that the New York Post is generally unreliable for factual reporting especially with regard to politics, particularly New York City politics. A tabloid newspaper, editors criticise its lack of concern for fact-checking or corrections, including a number of examples of outright fabrication."
A notable brawl occurred in Times Square on 27 January 2024, with two members of the Tren de Aragua reportedly being arrested after attacking NYPD officers.
- The Associated Press article itself says in its headline: "Man charged with attacking cops in Times Square and vilified in Trump ad was misidentified, DA says". The only mention about the gang here is
ICE has alleged both are Tren de Aragua gang members.
. This cannot be asserted in an editorial voice, and definitely shouldn't be included unless there are convictions or conclusive investigations.In Texas, the gang extorts Venezuelan migrants and is primarily present in El Paso.
- Nowhere in the article this is stated. Besides continuing to cite the New York Post, there are only three times when the city is mentioned: citing a FBI agent, saying that the gang allegedly uses this place as a crossing (according to the NYP), and citing a former Marshall.
- The article that I offered about Chicago already addresses the police reports, and responds writing: "Cops were warned to check crime suspects for tattoos linked to the El Tren de Aragua prison gang. A Sun-Times analysis found shoplifting and domestic violence arrests, but little proof of the gang’s presence among migrants."
- All of this, along with WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLPCRIME, leaves pretty clear that better sourcing must be used for this section. --NoonIcarus (talk) 23:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Totally agree that the article could do better with expanded sections from other regions. A book I can recommend is one written by journalist Ronna Rísquez about the band. --NoonIcarus (talk) 18:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
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