User talk:Una Smith/2008.02 - 2008.04

The Horsemen's Voice

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article The Horsemen's Voice, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of The Horsemen's Voice. NawlinWiki (talk) 15:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Choristoma

Another editor has added the {{prod}} template to the article Choristoma, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 16:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Bitless bridle

I have made an attempt at cleaning up the article. Instead of doing it "live" and creating issues with editors that have been active on the page I have placed it here: User:Gtstricky/Sandbox. I tried to remove items that seemed to have POV issues as well as some comments that were missing citations. I also tried to simplify it a bit. I know nothing about horses but I do not think I changed the heart of the article. I would appreciate some feedback. Thanks Gtstricky^{Talk or C} 21:56, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

POV fork?

Hey, I really have to take issue with you calling the Hackamore article a "POV fork" -- if you followed your own advice and looked at the article history, you would notice that it was started in 2005 by someone other than me. I expanded it quite a bit about a year ago and it has been stable for a long time until recent edit warring. (Fewer edits in three years than Bitless bridle has had in two weeks) "Bitless bridle" was created on Feb 14 of this year. I don't think you meant to start a personal attack, but it did feel that way (but then, you've sometimes felt I insulted you, so let's just call it square and both try to be more careful). I would appreciate it if you assume good faith and don't stereotype me into any one pigeonhole - I've done a lot of different things. You've implied that I don't understand trail riding, but I did trail riding before I set foot in a show ring. Others have assumed that, being from Montana I am a "yee haw" cowgirl, though I have competed in Dressage but have never competed in a rodeo (nor care to). I can't rope anything and have little interest in chasing cans(!) So just assume good faith and ask for sources. OK?

As for the "bitless bridle" issue, you do not appear to understand that hackamore/jaquima is a word that came from the Arabs ("Hakma" or something like that) to the Spanish vaquero tradition as modified in the USA by the Great Basin "buckaroo" tradition that gave rise to the core concepts of what today gets called "Natural Horsemanship" (like that's some new thing.) And from there it spread. Australian horsemanship clearly shows influences from both European and Western USA traditions as modified by geography, so what I hope I can explain without all the emotionality is that the techniques of the hackamore reinsman started the whole modern "bitless" thing (though, obviously, hackamores were the first headgear used to control horses, see domestication of the horse, and both nose rings and bits were subsequent developments). Ironically, the goal of the vaquero was the creation of the "straight up bridle horse," meaning, to over-simplify, a horse that worked in a spade bit. To source all this, I not only have to get some old books from the library, possibly some via interlibrary loan, but also browse back issues of Western Horseman for things I remember reading, and I may not have all the issues any more because I give away a lot of magazines. Bottom line is that my goal is not POV-pushing, it is accuracy. And, I'm a fourth-generation Westerner, and horse person (don't know what great-grandpa - generation 1 - did in Germany before he emigrated, but he was a horseman here. ) So, though I try very hard to be able to always verify and source my edits to NPOV standards, and I am, on occasion mistaken about things (like anyone), there are also things I know in my gut from a lifetime with horses, and even if I don't always put them correctly the first time, my goal is accuracy.

So can we have a truce here? Montanabw^(talk) 01:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

On the riding in a halter thing, we may have to agree to disagree. A lot of people ride with just an old stable halter with a rope rein on each side of the cheekpieces, even I've done it (but never in the open, mostly just cooling down hot horses). I still don't think it's safe. Montanabw^(talk) 01:31, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

archive link

Hi Una. I noticed that the link to your archive was not appearing above, so I changed {{archive box collapsible}} by adding the auto parameter, giving: {{archive box collapsible|auto=yes}} Regards, cygnis insignis 00:16, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Food for thought

Not appreciating your veiled personal attacks and snarky comments. You are feeding fat to the fire here, and I would appreciate it if you would stop. You have been here long enough to know better. We have different perspectives, we can discuss them with a bit more civility, I think. Montanabw^(talk) 06:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me? Diffs would be appreciated. --Una Smith (talk) 14:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

All of them? Well, maybe you are slamming other people too, and at the moment you are trying to help Aeron understand wiki, just please realize that you and I may disagree rather strongly, but I am not your enemy. This hackamore and bitless bridle thing is something I need to stay with until it is settled, but it has been very difficult, emotional and frankly, needs to get settled down one way or the other. Aeron is starting to attack other articles I have been involved with in ways that are not constructive and if you are her friend, can you at least try and get her to cool her jets? Montanabw^(talk) 05:06, 26 February 2008 (UTC)