User talk:Williamborg

Hi,

Your comments (signed of course) are welcome here. Candor & honesty are welcome, at least up to a point.

To retain a humbling record of my past immature responses and the results of debates, I've also archived older talk material on User talk:Williamborg/archive. Newsletters are deleted once read.

Work in progress can be found at User talk:Williamborg/sandbox, User talk:Williamborg/sandbox1, User talk:Williamborg/sandbox2 & User talk:Williamborg/terms.

Gallery on User:Agtfjott

I'm going to add galleries on my user page to keep track of uploads to wikipedia. Probably I'm going to add images there before they are added anywhere else. Agtfjott 07:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Photostuff

Cleaned up some stuff on Commons:Category:Norway. Slowly I get to the point where it is possible to figure out what photos exist and which are missing. Those I moved around are now sorted on muncipality if known and possible, then I tried to streamline sorting on function. Sort of. Hopefully nothing is missing but I did find some pictures in categories far from where they should hav been. Agtfjott 23:03, 1 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Region?

We need to review the terms used for various types of regions of Norway, esp. the current erroneous term "landscape", but also landsdel and tettsted. See for instance Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Norway#.22Landscape.22. -- Egil 16:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Would appreciate if you’d take the lead on proposing the approach. I’m of a rather retiring personality who finds some of the debates one must go through in the group dynamics of a Wiki sap my energy. It has taken me a while just to come back to Wiki – and I need to focus on making some contributions in uncontroversial areas for a while. Thanks! Williamborg 21:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nice job done by Egil! Since this is history, I'm moving it to there on the 24th. Williamborg 03:05, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Page Blanking

On 24-Jan, you blanked Sogndalen. Blanking pages is generally considered a bad idea. In cases of creating an article under a misspelling, it's better to redirect the misspelling to the correct article. You are probably not the only one who will make that spelling mistake. I've redirected this article to Songdalen. Thanks! -- JLaTondre 01:49, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. More extensive response at JLaTondre's page. Williamborg 03:13, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I provided a link to the directions in my first post. They are at Wikipedia:Redirect. If you still have questions, let me know. -- JLaTondre 13:33, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, you did. Thanks! Williamborg

Norweigan county maps

Thank you for the kind comments on the maps. I am doing a major project at work - drilling down each country to the 1st, 2nd, even 3rd administrative level, and updating a huge database (english names, local names, the works). When I got to the Wiki section on Norway, I noticed that there were so many counties without maps as a guide, so I wanted to help contribute to the articles. I appreciate all of the comments - and I will strive to improve the coastline detail (mine came from a database that was not quite focused on detail) and the alpha ordering in the future (I noticed how Norweigans actually alphabetize the Ø and å characters differently, so I want to improve the maps so the lists are in Norge alpha-order). I am open for doing district maps - the big thing will be the need for source data for me to use, no matter what language (as long as I can decipher the borders). Rarelibra 00:37 27JAN2006

You're quite welcome for the kind comment; it was sincere. Since the Wikipedia is a voluntary thing, I appreciate the work of folks like you who concentrate on improving basic information. And as a visual person, I really value maps.

As a possible aid for your effort, I would recommend the German site at German map of Aust-Agder or Veiatlas Norge as possible sources. From the German site you can transfer to other counties of Norway as well. Or if you can’t get access, I’d be happy to print as a pdf & email to your. And if you’d like to post DRAFT versions on your talk page, I’m sure several of our active Norway contributors would be happy to review and comment. Williamborg 22:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming districts

It's entirely possible that I haven't paid attention, but can you point me to the discussion about using the indefinite form for such places as Gudbrandsdalen? --Leifern 22:15, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm guilty of "going off half-cocked". Added a section titled Gudbrandsdal or Gudbrandsdalen to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Norway. In summary, I suggest we simply use the form on the Districts of Norway page to document our consensus usage. But, as always, i'm willing to be convinced it there is a better solution. Williamborg 02:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fjord

Thanks. It just seemed to be getting unwieldy. By the way, I'm not sure I agree with how glacial origin is optional in your revision of our definition of fjord. I will try to prompt some discussion of this on the article's talk page. -- Avenue 10:38, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. I'll discuss on the fjord talk page. Williamborg 13:54, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A long time ago...

..we discussed the Vang church. And I told you I was sure it was the wrong Vang church? The right one is on the left side and the correct is on the right side. Uh.. The one on the right is whats left of my brain.. — John Erling Blad (no) 23:39, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably why sailors use port and starboard.

Rather an interesting right church to port (although not as interesting in architecture as the 'wrong' one to starboard). Do we know when it was built and whether is has an interesting history? Williamborg 03:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are pretty decant litterature on most of the norwegian churches. Problem is, it is so many of them so it is necessary to limit the number to describe. And if you remove some of them from a list of interesting churches, other people adds them back in. Often without realizing the reason why they was removed in the first place. "Interesting enough to describe" often turns out to be read like "church in my neighbourhood". — John Erling Blad (no) 20:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Subpages

I noticed you have User_talk:Williamborg-1 and User_talk:Williamborg-2. This isn't the proper way to create subpages - those are the user pages for the (presumably non-existent) accounts User:Williamborg-1 and User:Williamborg-2. Subpages of your userspace would be something like User:Williamborg/subpage or User talk:Williamborg/archive. These are part of your user space and connect with it. You should move your subpages back into your own user space (click on the [move] button at the top of the page) and then tag the old pages for speedy deletion - otherwise someone registering User:Williamborg-1 might be very confused ;)

If you need any help or clarification, please feel free to ask me for help. Guettarda 18:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. Now I understand how it is done. Thanks - Williamborg 14:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History of Jämtland

You have edited the text on Jamtlandic such that it now says:

"Jämtland was originally settled by fugitives from Trøndelag after Harald Fairhair united Norway in the 9th century, became part of Norway during the reign of Haakon I in the 10th century and remained part of Norway until the 17th century."

(Claimed source: Gjerset, Knut (1915). History of the Norwegian People, Volumes I & II, The MacMillan Company.)

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't history say that king Sverrir conquered Jämtland in 1178? How can he have conquered Jämtland if it already was a part of Norway? No, Jämtland had been an independent nation ever since 9th century when the trönds colonised the area, though being allied with Norway or Sweden at different periods throughout Viking age depending on what they found most appropriate.

BTW, I'll completely re-write the article on Jamtlandic so there's no point in adding stuff. I'll probably remove the history part completely, since it is quite likely that the theory of a tröndish migration to Jämtland is not very relevant (the migration probably consisted of some few households setling near people who they were acquainted with since generations), though the connection to Tröndelag is important.

Jens Persson jepe2503 [at] hotmail [dot] com (130.242.128.85 19:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Norwegian geography articles=

hi williamborg. i see youve been making a lot of articles about norwegian geography. did you know that you can use {{norway-geo-stub}} rather than {{geo-stub}} on them? :) BL Lacertae - kiss the lizard 06:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nope... Williamborg 15:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Population centres in Lunner

I see your point. Although there are other population centres in Lunner, such as Grindvoll and Oppdalen, they may not be as cemented and formalised as the rest. I guess I just wanted the sentence to read better. Alter/revert/change or delete at will! --Grumpy444grumpy 15:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually just checking to make sure you meant what you wrote. You did. Looks good to me. Takk - Williamborg 21:35, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Den vakre

"The term «den vakre» exceeds both my Norwegian vocabulary and my dictionaries. The name Frier comes from the old Norse and means «den vakre» or the watchman? Any help would be appreciated. Williamborg 23:27, 11 March 2006 (UTC)"[reply]

Not quite sure what you mean. What is the context? --Grumpy444grumpy 19:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot for the life of me understand what the word "Frier" has to do with "den vakre". As your dictionary will tell you the word "frier" means something like "suitor" or "wooer", but I think this is a relatively modern word. I was thinking, though, if it is Norse, could it have anything to do with either of the gods Frey, Freya or Frigg? Just a thought. --Grumpy444grumpy 21:35, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have checked out Oluf Rygh's book on placenames in Norway, and it turns out that the Norse adjective fríðr means free, lovely or beautiful. Problem solved? --Grumpy444grumpy 09:37, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Solved! and a fríðr solution at that! Thanks - Williamborg 16:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Drive for Swedish quality articles

Hello. This is in regards to the upcoming Wikipedia improvements Wikipedia:Pushing to 1.0 and Wikipedia:Stable versions, which have the intentions to provide stable versions of articles suitable for prints or publishing.

I've noticed you have written several articles about Swedish matters. If you feel some of these are decent enough to deserve recognition, you are encouraged to nominate them at Wikipedia:Swedish Wikipedians' notice board/Swedish quality articles. In the end, our articles should be comparable to what is expected from the Encyclopedia Britannica. If it currently isn't, but you feel you have spent a considerable amount of time on it, you are still encouraged to nominate it, so that your work will be recognized and others can continue to improve on it. Don't be shy! :-)

Fred-Chess 11:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Most kind of you to suggest. But my focus has been on completeness (i.e., filling in the obvious gaps) rather than driving articles to full publication quality. I'll look over some of them to see if any are good enough for prime time - but am pretty sure I'll nominate few. Thanks - Williamborg 16:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Valdres Folkemuseum

I need someone to check out my english spelling in the addition to the article about Valdres Folkemuseum. Hopefully I found the right buildings! — John Erling Blad (no) 20:29, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image Tagging for Image:Seter_2.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Seter_2.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see User talk:Carnildo/images. 12:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Updated to include information not required when originally uploaded (or perhaps left off in my ignorance). Williamborg 01:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Greensted Church

I found a question on User talk:Wiglafs discussion page about this church, added by you. The correct reading of "and it is often classified as a stave church" is more like "and the palisade walls are often classified as remnants of a stave church". This to is wrong if you use a Norwegian description of a stave church. It is although right if you use a Swedish definition of a stave church.

The background is, in Sweden a stave church is a church with standing planks in the wall while in Norway a stave church is specific construction with standing staves (pillars) on top of a wooden frame. Sometimes scholars in Sweden uses risverkskyrka to avoid the confusion. In all there are three different constructions, probably with a lot of transitional forms. A palisade construction, a construction with earth bound posts and a construction with posts on top of a wooden frame. To make the situation even more unclear a palisade construction can be partly lifted from the ground and set on a wooden frame.

Especially churches with earth bound posts can be easily spotted during an archaeological survey and a palisade construction were all or parts of the walls are set in gravel. Such buildings are detected all over Europe, and according to Leif Anker "Europe are covered in post holes from Italy to Norway". As he says, "it is more interesting to investigate why the stave churches survived in Norway then to try to see them as a Norwegian-only phenomenon".

— John Erling Blad (no) 10:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent discussion. Might I suggest it be added to the Greensted Church and stave church pages? Williamborg 15:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think parts of the stave church article need a reorganization as it tries to describes to many concepts. Right now the Norwegian article both describes a stave church, a post church, palisade techniques, historical foundation, restoration, iconography, etc. At least there should be articles about wooden houses in northern europe with construction techniques for the various types. Then there should be an article about the findings of such buildings all over Europe, probably also with linking to iconography and tales from the various areas. The main problem with this is that parts of english Wikipedia seems to be more focused on the interpretation of the tales, iconography and buildings in a national romantic context then in a scientific context. — John Erling Blad (no) 00:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that there is a tendency toward the national romantic - probably the result of having folks like me editing. I have to make a conscious effort to view things differently than as my grandmother described them - and that is sometimes hard. Williamborg 01:40, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think your edits are a problem at all! :D

There are a couple of other articles. One is Palisade church the other is Hemse stave church. The later is an translation I've only initiated to avoid a red link. The interesting thing is that this church which is close to the most extraordinary such finding in Sweden isn't at display for the moment. I'll translate the Norwegian article unless you or someone else wants to do it. — John Erling Blad (no) 02:52, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Am currently working on Vestfronten på Nidarosdomen plus trying to work through the Buskerud municipalities, so I’ll defer to you on Hemse stave church, but I can see the Norwegian article is worth translating. I’ll watch for it. Williamborg 03:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, Buskerud.. I'll see if I can take a tour and make some snapshots. Its just a little awkward way home. And I can take photos of some chuches along the road. — John Erling Blad (no) 03:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll watch for more of your excellent pictures... Williamborg 02:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Trondheim elgeseterbru 1.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded, Image:Trondheim elgeseterbru 1.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

See Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Free_licenses. Images licensed only for use on Wikipedia are not acceptable. It should probably not be on the Norwegian Wikipedia either. -Nv8200p talk 15:16, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Blåfjella-Skjækerfjella

I reverted your change from no:Blåfjella-Skjækerfjella nasjonalpark Interwiki there, assuming it was an error. Egil 05:09, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct - wrong article changed. Williamborg 05:14, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

no:Wikipedia:Wiki for trygd

An article for translation? :D — John Erling Blad (no) 06:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Norwegian Water Resources and Energy Directorate

I made an article for the Norwegian Water Resources and Energy Directorate (Norges vassdrags- og energidirektorat) so that Norwegian lakes pages don't need to use a no: interwiki link when talking about the NVE any more. (It's actually less stubby than the Norwegian article, somewhat surprisingly!) Since you created the excellent List of lakes in Norway, I wondered if you knew where on the internet their lakes database is stored? An address would make it possible to accurately reference a lot of Norwegian lake articles.

On a similar topic, do you think it would be worth moving the discussion about different types/names of "lake" in Norway currently on the category page at Category:Lakes of Norway (explaining e.g. why Randsfjorden is called a fjord even though it's not a salt water inlet) into the list of Norwegian lakes? It seems more sensible to have it in article space somewhere, and that would seem to be the best place to put it. TheGrappler 01:28, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Out of the country for a week. Internet access a little sketchy. Will find site once back home. Williamborg 01:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Went ahead and made the change you recommended (amazing what you can convince me of when you are so courteous and complimentary) - in this case it was John Erling Blad's excellent work that I just quoted - but it was still thoughtful of you. Williamborg 02:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I realised that some of the lake names are actually Sami in origin, so I've added (and referenced, once I got my head around <ref> - took me ages to remember to put <references /> in at the end) something about that too. I also made and inserted a map to show what a lake named "-fjord" tends to look like. So long as its possible to to find a citable address for the lakes database, and some of the red links get filled in (which is on my to-do list) I imagine this can reach featured list status... TheGrappler 21:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Be happy to see you push it to the quality that warrants it reaching featured list status. My goals are more pedestrian; I learn about Norway by doing these edits. Cheers - Williamborg 19:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

National park

Hi! Regarding the redirect. I don't really have a preference for the Sami name to be honest, but the the Paatsjoki one was a bit longer, and contained all the information from Norwegian-named one. I was just being lazy mergeing the two. Since Veiatlas seems to be the guideline, unless there's a English name, I'll make Paatsjoki the redirect. And I'll take a look at the template for you. Thanks for the vigilant eye. --Eivind ^t ^@^c 00:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is it Pasvikelva or Paskikelva. --Eivind ^t ^@^c 00:41, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After some research it appears that Paatsjoki is 2 years old, a redirect called Pasvikelva is almost a year old, and your article is one day old, this makes me reluctant to just change around the whole thing. Maybe we should try to find out the Russian name for it, and call it a tie-breaker. Eivind ^t ^@^c 00:49, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Chech Wikipedia gives the russian name as Паз (Paz) [1], this ofcourse doesn't help us at all. Eivind ^t ^@^c 03:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Death to Sweden(?)

Hi! Did you find the commenton a AfD discussion on a mod of a game (battlefield?), since the article is probably deleted the comment might seem a bit trollish, but the mod was about a fictional war between Sweden and Norway. Silly mod, silly comment. And death to Denmark. --Eivind ^t ^@^c 12:32, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, since Zarkow didn't sign his message, I completly misunderstud it. I thought you wrote the entire discustion. I thought that you thought... oh never mind. Eivind ^t ^@^c 15:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying... That's what I get for reading other peoples talk pages, & then commenting on them... ;) Williamborg 02:55, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your new stubs

Hei! I noticed that you've made several new stubs and marked them as {{Norway-geo-stub}}, rather than {{Oppland-geo-stub}}, please remember to use the new stub-tags (less work for me :) ). Keep up the good work! --E ivind ^t ^@^c 19:49, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The names of the stub-templates was decided by WP:WSS, so don't blame me for SognFjordane :) Templates are made just like articles, just start a Template:Whatever, I don't know if there's a spesific template-making-help-page, but the same wikicodes apply to temps as the rest of Wikipedia. I usally "steel" codes from other temps and modify them. --E ivind ^t ^@^c 20:31, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. Thanks - Williamborg 02:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Avdalen

Great job. Thanks a million. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 03:04, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ne problema. Actually, it was on my list of things to clean up someday, so your designation as needing a copyedit just moved it up. Spaceba - Williamborg 03:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects

Hi, I fixed the redirect you made for Teno (river). Just make sure to put the # sign in front of the redirect. Thanks, GilliamJF 04:46, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'm obviously editing too fast. Williamborg 05:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

-)) GilliamJF 05:32, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Wars

Hey I noticed the revert between you and Y on my watchlist. I see for some reason most of the articles include both wars, but the danish version for example, doesn't seem to mention the war in 1665. Another example is the Dutch. Besides that, most of the articles have very little mention of the 1665 war, and instead only include a bit of background info. Shouldn't these links be removed and left with only the articles on the 1665 war. Falphin 22:26, 1 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great call. I re-reverted. Williamborg 02:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kjetil r as admin on commons

Hi! The norwegians have put foreward an admin request on commons, commons:Template:Administrators/Requests and votes/Kjetil r. It would be nice to have your vote! — John Erling Blad (no) 21:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]