Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Kurds: Difference between revisions

Registered Dec. 9
First edit: Special:Diff/993257830 from Kurdish to Turkish-Kurdish
Second edit: Special:Diff/993366061 from Kurdish to not Kurdish
Removing Kurdish translations: Special:Diff/993933464 Special:Diff/993934524 Special:Diff/993960169 Special:Diff/993963006 Special:Diff/993972871
"Ethnic Turks are the overwhelming majority in the city." citing a map on Commons Special:Diff/993975947
Changing "primarily Turkish speaking Kurds and Arabs, but also Turkmen" to "primarily Turkmen, but also Arabs and Kurdish families" Special:Diff/994035097 Special:Diff/994035398

User:عمرو بن كلثوم

عمرو بن كلثوم (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Dec 2020 (except where noted)

Partially blocked from Talk:Syrian Kurdistan for POV pushing and BLP vio on 12/15.
Starts Talk:Rojava conflict#Requested move 18 December 2020
Canvassing
1. at User talk:HistoryofIran#2009 paper by Garnik Asatrian
2. at Al Ameer son (Aug 2020)
Removing "Rojava"
1. Removes "Rojava" from Qamishli Special:Diff/980525889 in Sep 2020; in Dec 2020 adds "Kurdification process and Christian population opposition" section to Qamishli using a source entitled "From Qamishli to Qamishlo: A Trip to Rojava’s New Capital" Special:Diff/993189003. Changes "Christian population opposition" to "Christian population resentment" Special:Diff/993298653.
2. Removing "Rojava" Special:Diff/995285835
3. "'rojava' is POV-pushing per se" Special:Diff/995392670
Kurds/Arabs/Syrians
1. Removes Kurdish translation from Jarabulus Special:Diff/994724313 Special:Diff/994724346
2. "historically been highly diverse" to "historically been the domain of nomad and sedentary Arabs" Special:Diff/994634003
3. "predominantly Kurdish" to "predominantly Arab", citing a source that doesn't support the statement (and is a NatGeo blog entry by a freelance journalist [2]) Special:Diff/994546679 Special:Diff/994546960. Then putting the Arabic translation in front of the Kurdish translation Special:Diff/994547096.
4. Changing "which was predominantly Kurdish" to "based on reports of illegal infiltration of tens of thousands of Turkish Kurds into Syria". Special:Diff/994553177 See also Special:Diff/995472949 and Special:Diff/995295383
5. wanting to move Syrian Kurdistan in Kurdish occupied areas in Syria, or PYD controlled areas in the midst of the Siege of Kobane by ISIL :diff (2015)
6. not taking part in a discussion constructively on a name change from Arabic into Kurdish by answering I don't care what you think... (May 2020)

Seeming to classify areas liberated from ISIL (Like former ISIL stronghold Tell Abyad) as Kurdish or PYD occupied. (October 2016)
1. Being occupied by MILITARY FORCE is one thing, and being part of a political entity is a completely separate thing.
2. The areas in your maps are occupied by military force (as part of the Syrian civil war), and the Kurdish militias will be kicked of from those areas. If you want to write on the map "Areas occupied by PYD forces" then that's OK with me, but to invent a name and depict on the entire northern Syria territory...

Further
1. [3], [4] (Inserts and re-inserts claim that Kurds did not live in the Jazira region before the French Mandate, created to justify the Arab Belt ethnic cleansing policy in Syrian Kurdistan on the page "Arab Belt". Misrepresentation of sources. Edit summary: Added some background info and number) (June 2020)
2. "The conventional wisdom talks about three parts of Kurdistan; in Turkey, Iran and Iraq."..."While Kurds do live in Syria (various parts), no Syrian territory is considered part of Kurdistan, which is also echoes in the Treaty of Sevres map. We can refer to the presence of Kurdish-inhabited areas in northeaster Syria, but it is a mistake to refer to that as part of Kurdistan" (July 2020)
3. "Give me one source published before 2011 mentioning the term Syrian Kurdistan. Yes, there are Kurdish inhabited areas in Syria, but with other groups, nothing purely Kurdish." (July 2020)
4. [5] (removes a link to "Syrian Kurdistan" from the article on "Iraqi Kurdistan", edit summary: "Who says northern Syria is Western kurdistan?") (October 2020)
5. [6] (removes a link to "Syrian Kurdistan" from the article on "Kurdistan", edit summary: "Updated regional coverage per established sources, not POV outlets") (October 2020)
6. "I provided the all-important Treaty of Sevres map above, and a number of academic books that talk about Kurdistan, but no "Syrian kurdistan". ... On a quick factcheck, it is interesting that none of the links provided above by Paradise (sic, recte: "GPinkerton") has "Syrian Kurdistan" in the name. (!) We are not arguing about the presence of a Kurdistan or Kurds in Syria. One last thing, I just visited one of the links provided above by Paradise and could not even find Syria in there. There is Iran, Iraq and Turkey." (November 2020)
7. "a number of academic books that talk about Kurdistan, but no "Syrian kurdistan". ... argue that this term was produced by Kurdish nationalists during the Syrian Civil War. We are not arguing about the presence of a Kurdistan or Kurds in Syria." (November 2020)
8. "We have a ton of evidence presented throughout the article and the Talk page that this is a term used/invented by Kurds" (November 2020)
9. "You fail to make distinction between presence of Kurds in Syria (just like in any other country) and Syrian Kurdistan. Respected maps and books have not shown the existence of a Syrian Kurdistan, although they still talk about Kurdish communities. PKK/PYD portal have started this rhetoric of a "Syrian kurdistan" during the Syrian civil war and the control of large swaths in northern Syria by PYD militias." (November 2020)
10. "I propose renaming this page to "Kurdish region (or regions) of Syria"." followed by failure to engage with refutation with numerous counter-examples (Talk:Syrian_Kurdistan/Archive_2#Common_name_of_the_area_and_proposed_move) followed by the the exact same cherry-picked claims three weeks later presented on the same talk page (Talk:Syrian_Kurdistan#Discussion_of_"Syrian_Kurdistan") (November 2020)

Prof. Martin van Bruinessen
1. [7] GPinkerton adds a 1978 source (among many) explaining the meaning of "Syrian Kurdistan" to a discussion in which this editor is claiming there are no sources that use this term, or none before the 1980s. (In this discussion at NPOVN.)
2. [8] User:عمرو بن كلثوم then reintroduces this source rather reverentially as "Martin Dr Martin [sic] van Bruinessen (Fellow of the Kurdish Institute in Paris)" while indulging in argumentum ex silentio about the book's preface! (On the Syrian Kurdistan talkpage.)
3. [9] User:عمرو بن كلثوم is taken aback at GPinkerton's refutation of his claim that the phrase "Syrian Kurdistan" does not appear in the book (it does and is explained), and suddenly changes his mind on "Martin Dr Martin" the erstwhile worthy academic in respectable Paris, whose PhD-thesis-turned book was published by the University of Utrecht Press, but who in Act 2 now appears a radically changed character, a mean scholar [he's actually a professor] whose book is now merely personal opinion and tainted by association with the Center for Kurdish Studies (sounds very neutral) [emphasis original] which, in the space of less than twenty-four hours, has now become unspeakably biased and unusable for reasons that remain unexplained. The statement concerning Kurdistan divided between four modern states in the professor's book is now neutralized as now NOT an established fact. (The question of the reliability of arguments drawn ex silentio from the book's preface is not addressed ...)

See more discussions and diffs at:

Denial of ethnic cleansing

What reliable sources say:

Although the Kurds of Syria have not engaged in armed conflict with the state, they were targeted for ethnic cleansing beginning in the early 1960s. Some 120,000 Kurds were stripped of Syrian citizenship. According to a 1991 report by the Middle East Watch, the Syrian government planned for the depopulation of Kurdish regions by creating an "Arab belt" along the Turkish border, evicting peasants from 332 villages, and replacing them with Arab settlers.
Hassanpour, Amir (2005). "Kurds". In Shelton, Dinah L. (ed.). Encyclopedia of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity. Vol. 2. Detroit, MI: Macmillan Reference USA. pp. 632–637.

What عمرو بن كلثوم claims (latest example only, emphasis added)

... GPinkerton is calling relocation of 4000 Arab families within THEIR country into a province with >350,000 residents ethnic cleansing.... They are falsely claiming: 20th-century Arab Nationalist ethnic cleansing project in Syrian Kurdistan.

On this very page عمرو بن كلثوم changes "Kurdish" to "Syriac" and "ethnic cleansing project in Syrian Kurdistan" to "project settling 4000 farmer families in northerneastern Syrian" (sic!)

GPinkerton, your account is not really supported by the more reliable sources, who do not even mention "ethnic cleansing". Examples:

David McDowall (2004) -a Kurdish studies expert -:^[1] The government believed that 'At the beginning of 1945, the Kurds began to infiltrate into al-Hasakeh governorate. They came singly and in groups from neighbouring countries, especially Turkey, crossing illegally along the border from Ras al'Ain to al-Malikiyya. Gradually and illegally, they settled down in the region along the border in major population centres such as Dirbasiyya, Amuda and Malikiyya. Many of these Kurds were able to register themselves illegally in the Syrian civil registers. They were also able to obtain Syrian identity cards through a variety of means, with the help of their relatives and members if their tribes. They did so with the intent of settling down and acquiring property, especially after the issue of the agricultural reform law, so as to benefit from land redistribution.' Official figures available in 1961 showed that in a mere seven year period, between 1954 and 1961, the population of al-Hasakah governorate had increased from 240,000 to 305,000, an increase of 27 per cent which could not possibly be explained merely by natural increase. The government was sufficiently worried by the apparent influx that it carried out a sample census in June 1962 which indicated the real population was probably closer to 340,000. Although these figures may have been exaggerated, they were credible given the actual circumstances. From being lawless and virtually empty prior to 1914, the Jazira had proved to be astonishingly fertile once order was imposed by the French mandate and farming undertaken by the largely Kurdish population.... A strong suspicion that many migrants were entering Syria was inevitable. In Turkey the rapid mechanisation of farming had created huge unemployment and massive labour migration from the 1950s onwards. The fertile but not yet cultivated lands of northern Jazira must have been a strong enticement and the affected frontier was too long feasibly to police it.
Jordi Tejel (2008), Syria's Kurds: However, the plan was not put into place until 1973. The reasons for this delay in creating the “Arab belt” seemed to be related to technical constraints. The “colonization” of Jazira depended upon certain favorable conditions, such as the construction of the Tabqa dam on the Euphrates basin. Thus, after the filling of the Tabqa dam in 1975, around 4000 Arab families of the Walda tribe, whose own lands had been submerged, were settled (and armed) in forty-one of the “model” farms in Jazira, in the very heart of the Kurdish region, as well as in fifteen “model” farms north of Raqqa. From the time of their arrival in Jazira, the Arab families received rights of proprietorship and the former proprietors of these lands received no economic or material compensation at all. In exchange for this “generous” government policy, the Arab colonists were expected to become loyal subjects of the regime.
Even the Kurdish institute does not mention your "ethnic cleansing" allegations. Harriet Montgomery (2005), The Kurds of Syria: An existence denied: The creation of the Arab Belt began in 1973 when the Tabqa Dam on the Euphrates River was completed and vast areas of land were flooded making hundreds of Arab families homeless. At the same time, the families of approximately three hundred and forty Kurdish villages along the Syrian-Turkish-Iraqi border were ordered to leave their homes and were told to resettle in the non-Kurdish interior of Syria in areas such as Dayr al-Zur. After the Kurdish villagers resisted attempts to remove them from their homes the Syrian authorities altered their policy and began to move Arabs into specially constructed “model” villages of one hundred and fifty to two hundred homes in the Kurdish border areas. The land on which these villages were built and the land that was provided to the newly sett led Arabs was that which had been expropriated from Kurds through the 1962 Hasaka Census and the land reforms. In 1976 the Arab Belt project was officially suspended. However, the model villages were never deconstructed nor were the Arab migrants relocated or the Kurdish displaced re-sett led in land they were removed from.

User:Shadow4dark

Shadow4dark (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Dec 2020

Opening Talk:Kobanî#Requested move 16 December 2020 to move Kobani from Kurdish name to Arabic name Special:Diff/994617856
Removing map of Kurdish areas in Turkey from List of active separatist movements in Asia Special:Diff/993812963 and Secession in Turkey Special:Diff/992059371
Remove reference to "Kurdish Genocide (Turkey)" from Secession in Turkey Special:Diff/992060085
Describing a Dutch political party founded by two Dutch Turks as "far left" Special:Diff/993401538, reinstate after revert
At Kurdish–Turkish conflict (1978–present) making changes, e.g. "The vast majority of victims were children, elderly and women" cited to Daily Sabah Special:Diff/991553626; see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 321#RfC: Daily Sabah
At Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict, makes changes removing reference to 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War and changes text regarding Armenia-Saudi-Iran relations to reduce Armenian-Iranian connection Special:Diff/992490736

User:Supreme Deliciousness

Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User:Attar-Aram syria

Attar-Aram syria (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

"There are no historical record that puts the Kurdish inhabited regions of Syria within historical Kurdistan before the establishment of Syria"

User:GPinkerton

GPinkerton (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Here on this very same page, they are continuing the crusader that led to their indefinite block last month. They are falsely claiming: 20th-century Arab Nationalist ethnic cleansing project in Syrian Kurdistan. Well, the Kurdish studies expert David McDowall states the following:^[2] The government believed that 'At the beginning of 1945, the Kurds began to infiltrate into al-Hasakeh governorate. They came singly and in groups from neighbouring countries, especially Turkey, crossing illegally along the border from Ras al'Ain to al-Malikiyya. Gradually and illegally, they settled down in the region along the border in major population centres such as Dirbasiyya, Amuda and Malikiyya. Many of these Kurds were able to register themselves illegally in the Syrian civil registers. They were also able to obtain Syrian identity cards through a variety of means, with the help of their relatives and members if their tribes. They did so with the intent of settling down and acquiring property, especially after the issue of the agricultural reform law, so as to benefit from land redistribution.' Official figures available in 1961 showed that in a mere seven year period, between 1954 and 1961, the population of al-Hasakah governorate had increased from 240,000 to 305,000, an increase of 27 per cent which could not possibly be explained merely by natural increase. The government was sufficiently worried by the apparent influx that it carried out a sample census in June 1962 which indicated the real population was probably closer to 340,000. Although these figures may have been exaggerated, they were credible given the actual circumstances. From being lawless and virtually empty prior to 1914, the Jazira had proved to be astonishingly fertile once order was imposed by the French mandate and farming undertaken by the largely Kurdish population.... A strong suspicion that many migrants were entering Syria was inevitable. In Turkey the rapid mechanisation of farming had created huge unemployment and massive labour migration from the 1950s onwards. The fertile but not yet cultivated lands of northern Jazira must have been a strong enticement and the affected frontier was too long feasibly to police it. GPinkerton is calling relocation of 4000 Arab families within THEIR country into a province with >350,000 residents ethnic cleansing. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 19:52, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:Paradise Chronicle

Paradise Chronicle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Repeatedly makes baseless accusations claiming other editors of showing "tolerance towards ISIS" [10][11].
WP:BLP violations here
Ignored DRN case they opened and suggestion by volunteer user Nightenbelle, and decided to remove the SOURCED Washington Post material and Washington Institute material and continued to edit-war. They even removed the material during the DRN

^ McDowall, David. Modern History of the Kurds, I. B. Tauris & Company, Limited, 2004. pp. 473-474.
^ McDowall, David. Modern History of the Kurds, I. B. Tauris & Company, Limited, 2004. pp. 473-474.

[1] McDowall, David. Modern History of the Kurds, I. B. Tauris & Company, Limited, 2004. pp. 473-474.

[2] McDowall, David. Modern History of the Kurds, I. B. Tauris & Company, Limited, 2004. pp. 473-474.

[1]

[2]

@@ Line 169: / Line 169: @@
 What عمرو بن كلثوم [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=997272417&diff=997275082 claims] (latest example only, emphasis added) {{tqb|... GPinkerton is calling '''relocation of 4000 Arab families within THEIR country''' into a province with >350,000 residents ethnic cleansing.... They are falsely claiming: 20th-century Arab Nationalist '''ethnic cleansing''' project in Syrian Kurdistan. }}
 '''On this very page''' عمرو بن كلثوم [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Kurds&diff=prev&oldid=997272417 changes "Kurdish" to "Syriac" and "ethnic cleansing project in Syrian Kurdistan" to "project settling 4000 farmer families in northerneastern Syrian" (sic!)]
+:GPinkerton, your account is not really supported by the more reliable sources, who do not even mention "ethnic cleansing". Examples:
+* David McDowall (2004) -a Kurdish studies expert -:<ref>McDowall, David. Modern History of the Kurds, I. B. Tauris & Company, Limited, 2004. pp. 473-474.</ref> {{tqq|The government believed that 'At the beginning of 1945, the Kurds began to infiltrate into al-Hasakeh governorate. They came singly and in groups from neighbouring countries, especially Turkey, crossing illegally along the border from Ras al'Ain to al-Malikiyya. Gradually and illegally, they settled down in the region along the border in major population centres such as Dirbasiyya, Amuda and Malikiyya. Many of these Kurds were able to register themselves illegally in the Syrian civil registers. They were also able to obtain Syrian identity cards through a variety of means, with the help of their relatives and members if their tribes. They did so with the intent of settling down and acquiring property, especially after the issue of the agricultural reform law, so as to benefit from land redistribution.' Official figures available in 1961 showed that in a mere seven year period, between 1954 and 1961, the population of al-Hasakah governorate had increased from 240,000 to 305,000, an increase of 27 per cent which could not possibly be explained merely by natural increase. The government was sufficiently worried by the apparent influx that it carried out a sample census in June 1962 which indicated the real population was probably closer to 340,000. Although these figures may have been exaggerated, they were credible given the actual circumstances. From being lawless and virtually empty prior to 1914, the Jazira had proved to be astonishingly fertile once order was imposed by the French mandate and farming undertaken by the largely Kurdish population.... A strong suspicion that many migrants were entering Syria was inevitable. In Turkey the rapid mechanisation of farming had created huge unemployment and massive labour migration from the 1950s onwards. The fertile but not yet cultivated lands of northern Jazira must have been a strong enticement and the affected frontier was too long feasibly to police it.}}
+* Jordi Tejel (2008), [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Syria_s_Kurds/g4f54qsU618C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22Arab+belt%22+syria&pg=PA61&printsec=frontcover Syria's Kurds]: {{tqq|However, the plan was not put into place until 1973. The reasons for this delay in creating the “Arab belt” seemed to be related to technical constraints. The “colonization” of Jazira depended upon certain favorable conditions, such as the construction of the Tabqa dam on the Euphrates basin. Thus, after the filling of the Tabqa dam in 1975, around 4000 Arab families of the Walda tribe, whose own lands had been submerged, were settled (and armed) in forty-one of the “model” farms in Jazira, in the very heart of the Kurdish region, as well as in fifteen “model” farms north of Raqqa. From the time of their arrival in Jazira, the Arab families received rights of proprietorship and the former proprietors of these lands received no economic or material compensation at all. In exchange for this “generous” government policy, the Arab colonists were expected to become loyal subjects of the regime.}}
+* Even the Kurdish institute does not mention your "ethnic cleansing" allegations. [https://kurdishissue.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/the-kurds-of-syria-an-existence-denied.pdf Harriet Montgomery (2005), The Kurds of Syria: An existence denied]: {{tqq|The creation of the Arab Belt began in 1973 when the Tabqa Dam on the Euphrates River was completed and vast areas of land were flooded making hundreds of Arab families homeless. At the same time, the families of approximately three hundred and forty Kurdish villages along the Syrian-Turkish-Iraqi border were ordered to leave their homes and were told to resettle in the non-Kurdish interior of Syria in areas such as Dayr al-Zur. After the Kurdish villagers resisted attempts to remove them from their homes the Syrian authorities altered their policy and began to move Arabs into specially constructed “model” villages of one hundred and fifty to two hundred homes in the Kurdish border areas. The land on which these villages were built and the land that was provided to the newly sett led Arabs was that which had been expropriated from Kurds through the 1962 Hasaka Census and the land reforms. In 1976 the Arab Belt project was officially suspended. However, the model villages were never deconstructed nor were the Arab migrants relocated or the Kurdish displaced re-sett led in land they were removed from.}}
 ==User:Shadow4dark==