Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Kurds: Difference between revisions

Registered Dec. 9
First edit: Special:Diff/993257830 from Kurdish to Turkish-Kurdish
Second edit: Special:Diff/993366061 from Kurdish to not Kurdish
Removing Kurdish translations: Special:Diff/993933464 Special:Diff/993934524 Special:Diff/993960169 Special:Diff/993963006 Special:Diff/993972871
"Ethnic Turks are the overwhelming majority in the city." citing a map on Commons Special:Diff/993975947
Changing "primarily Turkish speaking Kurds and Arabs, but also Turkmen" to "primarily Turkmen, but also Arabs and Kurdish families" Special:Diff/994035097 Special:Diff/994035398

User:عمرو بن كلثوم

عمرو بن كلثوم (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Dec 2020 (except where noted)

Partially blocked from Talk:Syrian Kurdistan for POV pushing and BLP vio on 12/15.
Starts Talk:Rojava conflict#Requested move 18 December 2020
Canvassing
1. at User talk:HistoryofIran#2009 paper by Garnik Asatrian
2. at Al Ameer son (Aug 2020)
Removing "Rojava"
1. Removes "Rojava" from Qamishli Special:Diff/980525889 in Sep 2020; in Dec 2020 adds "Kurdification process and Christian population opposition" section to Qamishli using a source entitled "From Qamishli to Qamishlo: A Trip to Rojava’s New Capital" Special:Diff/993189003. Changes "Christian population opposition" to "Christian population resentment" Special:Diff/993298653.
2. Removing "Rojava" Special:Diff/995285835
3. "'rojava' is POV-pushing per se" Special:Diff/995392670
Kurds/Arabs/Syrians
1. Removes Kurdish translation from Jarabulus Special:Diff/994724313 Special:Diff/994724346
2. "historically been highly diverse" to "historically been the domain of nomad and sedentary Arabs" Special:Diff/994634003
3. "predominantly Kurdish" to "predominantly Arab", citing a source that doesn't support the statement (and is a NatGeo blog entry by a freelance journalist [2]) Special:Diff/994546679 Special:Diff/994546960. Then putting the Arabic translation in front of the Kurdish translation Special:Diff/994547096.
4. Changing "which was predominantly Kurdish" to "based on reports of illegal infiltration of tens of thousands of Turkish Kurds into Syria". See also Special:Diff/995472949 and Special:Diff/995295383
5. wanting to move Syrian Kurdistan in Kurdish occupied areas in Syria, or PYD controlled areas in the midst of the Siege of Kobane by ISIL :diff (2015)
6. not taking part in a discussion constructively on a name change from Arabic into Kurdish by answering I don't care what you think... (May 2020)
Further
1. [3], [4] (Inserts and re-inserts claim that Kurds did not live in the Jazira region before the French Mandate, created to justify the Arab Belt ethnic cleansing policy in Syrian Kurdistan on the page "Arab Belt". Misrepresentation of sources. Edit summary: Added some background info and number) (June 2020)
2. "The conventional wisdom talks about three parts of Kurdistan; in Turkey, Iran and Iraq."..."While Kurds do live in Syria (various parts), no Syrian territory is considered part of Kurdistan, which is also echoes in the Treaty of Sevres map. We can refer to the presence of Kurdish-inhabited areas in northeaster Syria, but it is a mistake to refer to that as part of Kurdistan" (July 2020)
3. "Give me one source published before 2011 mentioning the term Syrian Kurdistan. Yes, there are Kurdish inhabited areas in Syria, but with other groups, nothing purely Kurdish." (July 2020)
4. [5] (removes a link to "Syrian Kurdistan" from the article on "Iraqi Kurdistan", edit summary: "Who says northern Syria is Western kurdistan?") (October 2020)
5. [6] (removes a link to "Syrian Kurdistan" from the article on "Kurdistan", edit summary: "Updated regional coverage per established sources, not POV outlets") (October 2020)
6. "I provided the all-important Treaty of Sevres map above, and a number of academic books that talk about Kurdistan, but no "Syrian kurdistan". ... On a quick factcheck, it is interesting that none of the links provided above by Paradise (sic, recte: "GPinkerton") has "Syrian Kurdistan" in the name. (!) We are not arguing about the presence of a Kurdistan or Kurds in Syria. One last thing, I just visited one of the links provided above by Paradise and could not even find Syria in there. There is Iran, Iraq and Turkey." (November 2020)
7. "a number of academic books that talk about Kurdistan, but no "Syrian kurdistan". ... argue that this term was produced by Kurdish nationalists during the Syrian Civil War. We are not arguing about the presence of a Kurdistan or Kurds in Syria." (November 2020)
8. "We have a ton of evidence presented throughout the article and the Talk page that this is a term used/invented by Kurds" (November 2020)
9. "You fail to make distinction between presence of Kurds in Syria (just like in any other country) and Syrian Kurdistan. Respected maps and books have not shown the existence of a Syrian Kurdistan, although they still talk about Kurdish communities. PKK/PYD portal have started this rhetoric of a "Syrian kurdistan" during the Syrian civil war and the control of large swaths in northern Syria by PYD militias." (November 2020)
10. "I propose renaming this page to "Kurdish region (or regions) of Syria"." followed by failure to engage with refutation with numerous counter-examples (Talk:Syrian_Kurdistan/Archive_2#Common_name_of_the_area_and_proposed_move) followed by the the exact same cherry-picked claims three weeks later presented on the same talk page (Talk:Syrian_Kurdistan#Discussion_of_"Syrian_Kurdistan") (November 2020)
Prof. Martin van Bruinessen
1. [7] GPinkerton adds a 1978 source (among many) explaining the meaning of "Syrian Kurdistan" to a discussion in which this editor is claiming there are no sources that use this term, or none before the 1980s. (In this discussion at NPOVN.)
2. [8] User:عمرو بن كلثوم then reintroduces this source rather reverentially as "Martin Dr Martin [sic] van Bruinessen (Fellow of the Kurdish Institute in Paris)" while indulging in argumentum ex silentio about the book's preface! (On the Syrian Kurdistan talkpage.)
3. [9] User:عمرو بن كلثوم is taken aback at GPinkerton's refutation of his claim that the phrase "Syrian Kurdistan" does not appear in the book (it does and is explained), and suddenly changes his mind on "Martin Dr Martin" the erstwhile worthy academic in respectable Paris, whose PhD-thesis-turned book was published by the University of Utrecht Press, but who in Act 2 now appears a radically changed character, a mean scholar [he's actually a professor] whose book is now merely personal opinion and tainted by association with the Center for Kurdish Studies (sounds very neutral) [emphasis original] which, in the space of less than twenty-four hours, has now become unspeakably biased and unusable for reasons that remain unexplained. The statement concerning Kurdistan divided between four modern states in the professor's book is now neutralized as now NOT an established fact. (The question of the reliability of arguments drawn ex silentio from the book's preface is not addressed ...)

See more discussions and diffs at:

Denial of ethnic cleansing

What reliable sources say:

Although the Kurds of Syria have not engaged in armed conflict with the state, they were targeted for ethnic cleansing beginning in the early 1960s. Some 120,000 Kurds were stripped of Syrian citizenship. According to a 1991 report by the Middle East Watch, the Syrian government planned for the depopulation of Kurdish regions by creating an "Arab belt" along the Turkish border, evicting peasants from 332 villages, and replacing them with Arab settlers.
Hassanpour, Amir (2005). "Kurds". In Shelton, Dinah L. (ed.). Encyclopedia of Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity. Vol. 2. Detroit, MI: Macmillan Reference USA. pp. 632–637.

What عمرو بن كلثوم claims (latest example only, emphasis added)

... GPinkerton is calling relocation of 4000 Arab families within THEIR country into a province with >350,000 residents ethnic cleansing.... They are falsely claiming: 20th-century Arab Nationalist ethnic cleansing project in Syrian Kurdistan.

On this very page عمرو بن كلثوم changes "Kurdish" to "Syriac" and "ethnic cleansing project in Syrian Kurdistan" to "project settling 4000 farmer families in northerneastern Syrian" (sic!)

User:Shadow4dark

Shadow4dark (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Dec 2020

Opening Talk:Kobanî#Requested move 16 December 2020 to move Kobani from Kurdish name to Arabic name Special:Diff/994617856
Removing map of Kurdish areas in Turkey from List of active separatist movements in Asia Special:Diff/993812963 and Secession in Turkey Special:Diff/992059371
Remove reference to "Kurdish Genocide (Turkey)" from Secession in Turkey Special:Diff/992060085
Describing a Dutch political party founded by two Dutch Turks as "far left" Special:Diff/993401538, reinstate after revert
At Kurdish–Turkish conflict (1978–present) making changes, e.g. "The vast majority of victims were children, elderly and women" cited to Daily Sabah Special:Diff/991553626; see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 321#RfC: Daily Sabah
At Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict, makes changes removing reference to 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh War and changes text regarding Armenia-Saudi-Iran relations to reduce Armenian-Iranian connection Special:Diff/992490736
At Kurdistan Workers' Party, removes discussion of the PKK's relationship with the EU, including academic sources, replacing with an external link to a Wikipedia page, with the justification reverted the undo done by a kürt refugee in netherlands [10]

User:Supreme Deliciousness

Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User:Attar-Aram syria

Attar-Aram syria (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

"There are no historical record that puts the Kurdish inhabited regions of Syria within historical Kurdistan before the establishment of Syria"

User:GPinkerton

GPinkerton (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Here on this very same page, they are continuing the crusader that led to their indefinite block last month. They are falsely claiming: 20th-century Arab Nationalist ethnic cleansing project in Syrian Kurdistan. Well, the Kurdish studies expert David McDowall states the following:^[1]
The government believed that 'At the beginning of 1945, the Kurds began to infiltrate into al-Hasakeh governorate. They came singly and in groups from neighbouring countries, especially Turkey, crossing illegally along the border from Ras al'Ain to al-Malikiyya. Gradually and illegally, they settled down in the region along the border in major population centres such as Dirbasiyya, Amuda and Malikiyya. Many of these Kurds were able to register themselves illegally in the Syrian civil registers. They were also able to obtain Syrian identity cards through a variety of means, with the help of their relatives and members if their tribes. They did so with the intent of settling down and acquiring property, especially after the issue of the agricultural reform law, so as to benefit from land redistribution.' Official figures available in 1961 showed that in a mere seven year period, between 1954 and 1961, the population of al-Hasakah governorate had increased from 240,000 to 305,000, an increase of 27 per cent which could not possibly be explained merely by natural increase. The government was sufficiently worried by the apparent influx that it carried out a sample census in June 1962 which indicated the real population was probably closer to 340,000. Although these figures may have been exaggerated, they were credible given the actual circumstances. From being lawless and virtually empty prior to 1914, the Jazira had proved to be astonishingly fertile once order was imposed by the French mandate and farming undertaken by the largely Kurdish population.... A strong suspicion that many migrants were entering Syria was inevitable. In Turkey the rapid mechanisation of farming had created huge unemployment and massive labour migration from the 1950s onwards. The fertile but not yet cultivated lands of northern Jazira must have been a strong enticement and the affected frontier was too long feasibly to police it.
GPinkerton is calling relocation of 4000 Arab families within THEIR country into a province with >350,000 residents ethnic cleansing. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 19:52, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

^ McDowall, David. Modern History of the Kurds, I. B. Tauris & Company, Limited, 2004. pp. 473-474.

[1] McDowall, David. Modern History of the Kurds, I. B. Tauris & Company, Limited, 2004. pp. 473-474.

[1]

@@ Line 93: / Line 93: @@
 ##Removing "Armenian Genocide" from a section heading [[Special:Diff/995284951]]
 ##Removing Turkish Kurdistan and replaces it with Turkey from the article Kurmanji, the Kurdish language with the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kurmanji&diff=995454998&oldid=995241804&diffmode=source edit summary {{tq|removed WP:OR}}]
+## [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=988287419&oldid=988286221&diffmode=source diff] suggesting that the Kurdish YPG and ISIL are just as bad.
+## [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&type=revision&diff=989145983&oldid=989134031&diffmode=source diff] here then accusing me of deeming ThePharoah an "ISIL sympathizer" for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&type=revision&diff=989145983&oldid=989134031&diffmode=source mentioning] that The Pharoah17, Amr Ibn and Supreme Deliciousness had a {{tq|surprising tolerance towards ISIS}}.
 ==User:Ridax2020==
 {{userlinks|Ridax2020}}