Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-08-02 History of the Jews in Poland

Wikipedia Mediation Cabal
Article	History of the Jews in Poland
Status	open
Request date	01:31, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Requesting party	Unknown
Parties involved	Piotrus (talk · contribs), Tymek (talk · contribs), Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs), Boodlesthecat (talk · contribs), Xx236 (talk · contribs), Lysy (talk · contribs), Greg park avenue (talk · contribs), Poeticbent (talk · contribs)
Mediator(s)	«l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l»  (talk) Xavexgoem (talk)
Comment	Seeking an additional Mediator

[[Category:Wikipedia Medcab active cases|History of the Jews in Poland]][[Category:Wikipedia medcab maintenance|History of the Jews in Poland]]

Request details

Who are the involved parties?

Piotrus (talk · contribs), Tymek (talk · contribs), Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs), Boodlesthecat (talk · contribs), Xx236 (talk · contribs), Lysy (talk · contribs), Greg park avenue (talk · contribs), Poeticbent (talk · contribs)

What's going on?

Ongoing content disputes with the above editors centered on the issue of the extent of antisemitism in Poland, particularly in the 20th century. Disputes concerning validity of sources.

What would you like to change about that?

request monitoring of the article by uninvolved mediators to give opinions on the disputes and diffuse edit wars.

Mediator notes

• A rathor interesting request, not sure if this is a mediators job but I'm happy to do it informally and to request page prtotection and discuss disputes where required.

• After seeing the article history and talk page I think this is definetly a mediators job :=)   «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l»  (talk) 14:26, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Hi Guys, Im glad that you have come to mediation, would you mind stating your acceptance (of mediation) for starters   «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l»  (talk) 13:59, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• Accept. Boodlesthecat ^Meow? 14:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC) (mediation requester)
• Comment. I see no point in discussing anything with an editor whose idea of civil discourse consists of sending editors emails with comments like "you are a dick" and accusing them of various misdemeanors and never, ever admitting do having done anything wrong (see diffs I linked here for small selection oh his attitudes). I could see a point in mediation if Boody would apologize for his offensive emails and messages on Wikipedia, and promise to respect WP:CIV in the future. Otherwise, I will stick by WP:DFTT.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• I truly apologize for my rude email and will respect WP:CIV. I do request that Piotrus and others refrain from truly false accusations such as outrageous claims that I believe "all Poles are evil" as he wrote here and that he make an effort to curb the beliggerent edit warring practices, rude and often Jew-baiting comments of his colleagues in the future. Frustration with the endless barrage of abuse and obstinacy from a half dozen editors working in concert was no small part of the impetus for my unacceptable remarks. Boodlesthecat ^Meow? 17:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• The apology is accepted. I have no control over other editors (accusations of being a leader of Polish cabal aside), but I never condone any edit warring or Jew-baiting remarks (I don't recall seeing them anyway). If Boody would agree to assume good faith when it comes to Polish editors - who are just trying to build an encyclopedia, and are not particularly anti-semitic or fond of edit-warring and such from my experience - we wouldn't have much of a problem. That means, no accusations that other(s) are out there to get you, that they are unethical, baiting, revert warriors, and such. I provided a diff above to a post where I've collected some of your posts that assume bad faith w/ regards to Polish editors. If we don't see such attitude again, it will be a big help to everyone. And in the end, please remember WP:CABAL: if half a dozen editors work against one, it is likely because 1) one is so wrong it is apparent to many and 2) by accusing them of acting in concert, you bring them closer together, as they have to defend against such an accusation. Self-fulfilling prophecy, in other words :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

:obstinacy from a half dozen editors working in concert. Dear Boodlesthecat, if you are writing about yourself, Mordoor, Malik Shabazz and Jayjg, then I totally agree with you. Tymek (talk) 17:27, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Guys seriously, give the inuendo and attacks a rest   «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l»  (talk) 17:32, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

• Accept. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 22:28, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
• Accept, although I'm not sure if I'm a party here. --Lysy^talk 22:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
• Accept. The anti-Polish sentiment among some of the Wikipedia pro-Jewish editors troubles me a lot and unfortunately, the sheer scope of articles affected goes far beyond the History of the Jews in Poland. It includes a quiet disrespect even for the official Jewish sources such as the Israeli War Crimes Commission regarding the Holocaust, and all-out attacks on everything even remotely positive about the Jewish-Polish relations. The traditional voices of reason are out the window. I do not foresee an answer to what is happening, but I will gladly accept the Prom3th3an willingness to, at least, address the issues in the open, if you dare. --Poeticbent talk 20:35, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
• Comment Yes I am aware that history is by far one of the biggest problem causes, I have already requested a second mediator as I agree that if we want to get to the core porblem, we are going to have to address more than just this article.   «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l»  (talk) 00:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
  • I'll keep an eye on it, if you'd like :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 04:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC) Why was this downgraded at FAR is my question?
    • Offer accepted   «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l»  (talk) 06:47, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

• Location Where do you want base the discussion? we can do it here, on the article talk page or on my mediation page take your pick   «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l»  (talk) 03:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I choose the site, you choose the weapon ? Nice try, Prom3th3an ;-)

But seriously, chances are that this is going to be a long run so a dedicated (and simple) page could be a good choice. --Lysy^talk 06:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - This one, once a featured article, and several other historical articles, dealing with Jews in Poland and Holocaust in Poland, have been littered recently by inserting findings based on quasi-scientific references by Jan T. Gross and Klaus-Peter Fridrich (there may be more), who rely their "research" more on communist propaganda than on original records. I don't mind an article about Gross or Friedrich and their works exists in Wikipedia, since politicaly inclined press found them notable - you read it breathlessly ... (Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland after Auschwitz), but it's no basis for any historical article, which should depend solely on confirmed scholarly research. My comment regarding this activity you can find here; about the editors responsible for this suspected trolling there. My advise is: 1. unprotect the articles in question so someone may clean it, 2. ignore the editors in question even if they edit on Your Talk Page, 3. follow closely any frivolous edit in the space of the article(s) and act accordingly. Actually, I would go back to the day this article was still a featured article and take it from there. Would save a lot of work. greg park avenue (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC)