Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2020 October 5

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Smeat75 (talk | contribs) at 22:11, 5 October 2020 (→‎Template:Tchaikovsky operas: no). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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October 5

Template:Topical talk archive

Non-standard and archaic talk-page archive header, with just 31 transclusions. Redundant to other talk-page archive header templates. Note that Wikipedia:Topic archive has been marked as "historical" since 2012. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:42, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment that topic archives are now considered historical does not mean that they do not exist. so a marker for topical archives that do exist, should still exist as long as we keep the topic archives around. Unless they are merged into chronological archives, the fact that topic archives exist show that the template for marking them should exist. And all topic archives that do not currently use this template should be updated to use this template. -- 67.70.32.97 (talk) 02:24, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've removed the link to this template at {{Templates for archiving}} since the method is historical and won't get new transclusions. --Trialpears (talk) 08:45, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Izno (talk) 21:00, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Gounod operas

Only used on five articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Charles Gounod}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:16, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DO NOT DELETE. Leave these articles alone. Smeat75 (talk) 22:04, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Bizet operas

Only used on five articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Georges Bizet}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:15, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Monteverdi operas

Single use; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Claudio Monteverdi}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:13, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Mussorgsky operas

Only used on three articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Modest Mussorgsky}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:12, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Nielsen operas

Single use; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Carl Nielsen works}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:11, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Offenbach operas

Redundant to {{Jacques Offenbach}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:10, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NO DO NOT DELETE THIS TEMPLATE. I have written or rewritten many of these articles on Offenbach and feel the template is very useful. I wish editors who neither know nor care anything about these articles and never edit anything to do with operetta, like the proposer, would leave them alone.Smeat75 (talk) 21:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Oswald operas

Only used on three articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Henrique Oswald}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:09, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Pacini operas

Only used on five articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Giovanni Pacini}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:08, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Pergolesi operas

Single use; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Giovanni Battista Pergolesi}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:07, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Prokofiev operas

Only used on three articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Sergei Prokofiev}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Puccini operas

Unused; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Giacomo Puccini}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:05, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Rachmaninoff operas

Only used on three articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Sergei Rachmaninoff}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:04, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Ravel operas

Single use; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Maurice Ravel}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:03, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Respighi operas

Redundant to {{Ottorino Respighi}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Rossini operas

Redundant to {{Gioachino Rossini}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:00, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No.Do not delete. Useful. Smeat75 (talk) 21:56, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Milhaud operas

Only used on five articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Darius Milhaud}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:58, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Tchaikovsky operas

Redundant to {{Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:57, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose deletion of this useful template. Smeat75 (talk) 22:11, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Saint-Saëns operas

Only used on two articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Camille Saint-Saëns}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:55, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Sallinen operas

Only used on five articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Aulis Sallinen}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Holst operas

Only used on four articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Gustav Holst}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:51, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Chabrier operas

Only used on three articles; fails WP:NENAN. Redundant to {{Emmanuel Chabrier}}. Hides the image on mobile (the image should be retained in the articles when the template is removed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:49, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Perspectives of New Music

All this does is act as a wrapper for {{cite journal}} with the name of the journal filled in (and many possible parameters not passed). I can't see why this should exist. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 20:32, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Lenny

This doesn't really seem to be appropriate. The Lenny face is (as far as I know) almost entirely used to make something sexually suggestive. Appears to be used twice other than when {{Done/See also}} is transcluded - once on Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1035#Exclusive economic zone where it does appear have been meant to be sexual, and once on Talk:COVID-19 pandemic/Archive 35#The Question of Origin where it doesn't.

There's no reason this should exist if we want an inclusive environment. – Frood (talk) 20:26, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment according to [1][2][3] it is also used to indicate mischievousness, and its origins were not sexual. Also, it seems to be used for "I see what you did there" -- 67.70.32.97 (talk) 02:31, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. We now have sources saying that its origins were not sexual which seems to be the primary concern here. - *Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:34, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 01:44, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (with low confidence). Know Your Meme doesn't seem to say it's sexual, so given that and the above, I don't see the harm in keeping it around. I'm not the most up to speed with emoji culture, though, so if someone more knowledgeable comes along with a different view, give their !vote more weight than mine. Regardless, I think it's pretty clear that it's not an effective way to communicate and its use shouldn't be promoted. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 02:24, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 18:28, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Archive nav

Propose merging Template:Archive nav with Template:Archive navigation.
No need for both templates. The names are synonymous. "nav" is described as "an alternative of {{archive navigation}}". {{Archive navigation}} seems to be preferred, by a ratio of 10:1. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:25, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not a question. Merge. --Izno (talk) 14:57, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge. Hopefully a new era will come out of all these mergers, where editors use the talk page to get features added instead of forking. --Gonnym (talk) 10:46, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge' per nom. These should be the same. As usually I prefer replace and delete, because that way in future it's much easier for editors to identify the naming of the right template, and also less confusing. --Tom (LT) (talk) 00:06, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge I prefer Archive nav with a significant margin since it gives more links to a wide array of links allowing for easy navigation and think a merger should include a long parameter or something allowing for this plethora of links which is useful on pages with a lot of archives. Perhaps automatic detection using the long feature automatically if the number of archives is over 10 or something. --Trialpears (talk) 09:16, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I know this is a fairly clear consensus to merge thus far, but I'm relisting this for two reasons. 1) due to the number of transclusions, to allow time for more opinions, perhaps by users of the template. 2) There has been very little discussion on what functionality should be preserved, other than by Trialpears. Some editors believe in replace+delete, others may be suggesting that functionality should be implemented in the target template. I note this template does two main things differently: it shows a multiples of archive pages (and lesser increments for 'nearby' pages), rather than just showing 'prev'/'next', and it suppresses the "Archive" text. Since it's quite integral to the topic of merge, I think it'd be better to get a clearer consensus on what the 'merge' will look like at TfD, rather than at an less-visible talk page discussion after a closure.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 17:59, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Campaignbox Conquest of Aden

Template contains only two links: Aden Colony and Aden Expedition. Both articles currently link to each other, rendering this template entirely redundant. Koopinator (talk) 15:13, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Protestant Zionism

Seems like a very random collection of names. Either needs a very thorough cleanup by someone knowledgeable, or deletion. But it shouldn't be used in articles as is.

I have, after reading their articles, no idea why e.g. the following are included in this template (and have had this template added to their article, as if it was a main part of their career and notability):

... are all included in this template, but why? Fram (talk) 08:29, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template is currently a work in progress. The figures laid out in it played a formative role in the creation and advocacy of Protestant Restorationist and Zionist theology, which the article on the topic covers. As laid out in academic articles such as this, this, the books More Desired than Our Owne Salvation: The Roots of Christian Zionism by Robert O. Smith (2013) and The Origins of Christian Zionism: Lord Shaftesbury And Evangelical Support For A Jewish Homeland by Donald M. Lewis (2014). Torchist (talk) 11:23, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Templates which are still in such a state of construction shouldn't yet be added to countless articles, and even less so during a TfD to discuss the template. Your two sources don't look like reliable sources at all, the first is an essay with a very religious instead of scientific point of view, published digitally by the Jerry Falwell University, and the second is a doctoral scription by an author (a vicar) who later also wrote "Christian Zionism: Road-map to Armageddon" written "to debunk a powerful heresy called Christian Zionism": again, hardly a scientific, neutral source to base such a template on and place people like the Catholic Dumas in. Fram (talk) 12:59, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My tuppence worth is that I think the template detracts from, rather than adds to, the articles I've contributed to.Ehdeejay (talk) 19:03, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Radio Free Roscoe

Navbox for a television series without the volume of spinoff content needed to warrant a navbox. This previously consisted primarily of character bios that were deleted five years ago for being poorly sourced, and of the three "related" articles left two have also now been put up for deletion as poorly sourced -- literally the only things that pass muster at all are the television series itself and the episode list, and a navbox isn't necessary for that since the episode list is already linked in body of the series article anyway. Bearcat (talk) 03:01, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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