Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration/proposal for Ireland Article: Difference between revisions

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Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

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Editors must not use sweeping claims or generalisations, and all claims must be supported by referenced sources. Please address one point at a time.

GoodDay, no one has suggested deleting the Republic of Ireland article. This proposal is not about the RoI Article it's about the Ireland article.

I'll support this proposal only if the Island, Disambiguation & Country articles are not merged into it or deleted. Do I have an asurance on that? GoodDay (talk) 20:12, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is a proposal, not a bartering house. This proposal involves merging Ireland & Republic of Ireland, under the title Ireland. If you have a suggestion, make one in a new section titles “Suggestions” which I'll consider or propose a solution yourself with a modified version of this. See my comments to Fmph below for an expanded explaination. --Domer48_'fenian' 07:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

MickMacNee, you suggested an “Ireland which would cover all conceivable Ireland/Irish topics, such as History, Geography, Politics, Culture etc etc etc. This would include the content from the RoI Article, that's a merger, but this is not your proposal. This is a compilation of a number of proposals by a number of Editors.
BritishWatcher. Nothing to discuss.
Rockpocket. All that can be said is provide a Diff for the discussion were there was a consensus that "Ireland is ambiguous." No one can seem to find it. Provide sources to support this opinion per WP:V. Without Diff's there is nothing to discuss.

--Domer48_'fenian' 19:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Editors must not use sweeping claims or generalisations, and all claims must be supported by referenced sources. Please address one point at a time.

Fmph have a look at the China Article. Notice how it covers subjects in general way in the article, but with each section linking to a more detailed article. That's the idea. Some sections would deal with the whole island for example such as History, Geography, Politics, Culture etc. --Domer48_'fenian' 19:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Editors must not use sweeping claims or generalisations, and all claims must be supported by referenced sources. Please address one point at a time.

Domer, you said "All that can be said is provide a Diff for the discussion were there was a consensus that 'Ireland is ambiguous.'" Which Ireland/Ireland? Bastun^nutsaB 08:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Provide a Diff for the discussion were consensus was reached that "Ireland" is ambiguous. Both MASEM & myself can't find it. --Domer48_'fenian' 08:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What created the ambiguity was it the wrong naming of Ireland as ROI? BigDunc^Talk 11:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm attempting to locate the discussion to determine that see comment above. --Domer48_'fenian' 11:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ireland ^[1], is a primary topic. Needed, a citation that the name of the island is Ireland, or Eireann. Historically, the name of the country is Ireland, the island took its name from the country. Primary topic for country being the point. Tfz 13:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're really looking for a citation that the name of the island of Ireland is Ireland?! Ffs... Try here then. Article 2. Now - how about you provide a citation for "the island took its name from the country." Bastun^nutsaB 13:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You miss the point. We all know that, as it has been called that for some hundred years. Scotland losing southern Scotland didn't change the name of the country either. Whichever way it is looked upon country and island are "primary topics", that's why there is a collaboration page, in case you missed that. Tfz 14:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

They are both primary topics, but they are DIFFERENT topics making the term Ireland ambiguous and why its wrong to have a single article on them both. BritishWatcher (talk) 14:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC): Dunc it was the government of southern Ireland declearing their country title to be that of the island that has made Ireland ambiguous. They are to blame and they probably added that the official description is "Republic of Ireland", knowing people would need something else to call them in certain cases to avoid confusion. BritishWatcher (talk) 15:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ [http://www.constitution.ie Constitution of Ireland}

[1] [http://www.constitution.ie Constitution of Ireland}

[1]

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 What created the ambiguity was it the wrong naming of Ireland as ROI? <strong>[[User:BigDunc|<span style="font-family:Ariel Black;color:Green">BigDunc</span>]]</strong>[[User_talk:BigDunc|<sup><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:Orange">Talk</span></sup>]] 11:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 *I'm attempting to locate the discussion to determine that see comment above. --<font face="Celtic">[[User:Domer48|<span style="color:#009900"><strong>Domer48</strong></span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Domer48|<span style="color:#006600">'fenian'</span>]]''</sub></font> 11:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
-: Dunc it was the government of southern Ireland declearing their country title to be that of the island that has made [[Ireland]] ambiguous. They are to blame and they probably added that the official description is "Republic of Ireland", knowing people would need something else to call them in certain cases to avoid confusion. [[User:BritishWatcher|BritishWatcher]] ([[User talk:BritishWatcher|talk]]) 15:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
+*Ireland <ref>[http://www.constitution.ie Constitution of Ireland}</ref>, is a primary topic. Needed, a citation that the name of the island is Ireland, or Eireann. Historically, the name of the country is Ireland, the island took its name from the country. Primary topic for country being the point. [[User:Tfz|<font color="Blue" face="Comic sans">''Tfz''</font>]] [[User talk:Tfz|<font color="Blue"> <small></small> </font>]] 13:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
+::You're ''really'' looking for a citation that the name of the island of Ireland is Ireland?! Ffs... Try [http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland%20(Eng).htm here] then. Article 2. Now - how about you provide a citation for "the island took its name from the country." [[User:Bastun|<span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif">Bastun</span>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Bastun|nutsaB]]</sup> 13:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
+:::You miss the point. We all know that, as it has been called that for some hundred years. Scotland losing southern Scotland didn't change the name of the country either. Whichever way it is looked upon country and island are "primary topics", that's why there is a collaboration page, in case you missed that. [[User:Tfz|<font color="Blue" face="Comic sans">''Tfz''</font>]] [[User talk:Tfz|<font color="Blue"> <small></small> </font>]] 14:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
+:::: They are both primary topics, but they are DIFFERENT topics making the term Ireland ambiguous and why its wrong to have a single article on them both. [[User:BritishWatcher|BritishWatcher]] ([[User talk:BritishWatcher|talk]]) 14:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC): Dunc it was the government of southern Ireland declearing their country title to be that of the island that has made [[Ireland]] ambiguous. They are to blame and they probably added that the official description is "Republic of Ireland", knowing people would need something else to call them in certain cases to avoid confusion. [[User:BritishWatcher|BritishWatcher]] ([[User talk:BritishWatcher|talk]]) 15:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 ==References==