Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel

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Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC

Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.

Beauty Queen of Jerusalem

I read an article about this show that is about to air on Netflix. The show doesn't have a Wikipedia page. I believe it satisfies notability for one and I'm happy to create it - it's just that I've never created a page for a TV show before. Any specific advice people have or does anyone else want to help me work on it? MaskedSinger (talk) 12:46, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

It has a page on the Hebrew Wiki - https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%9E%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%AA_%D7%94%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A4%D7%99_%D7%A9%D7%9C_%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9D_(%D7%A1%D7%93%D7%A8%D7%AA_%D7%98%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%95%D7%99%D7%96%D7%99%D7%94) MaskedSinger (talk) 16:39, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I'd love to help :) Adam080 (talk) 12:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Adam080 Why don't you create it? I notice that artza productions who's making it doesn't have a page either. I'm going to see if it satisfies notability. If so, I may create it. MaskedSinger (talk) 10:09, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Started working on it :) Adam080 (talk) 17:10, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Fantastic! Can't wait to see it :) MaskedSinger (talk) 18:16, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Expanded the article, but haven't watched the TV show. If you watched it please check that everything is correct :) Adam080 (talk) 11:16, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Michael Aloni image

I edited Michael Aloni and couldn't help but notice how old his headshot is. He looks like a teenager! Does anyone have a more recent image of him we can add to the page? MaskedSinger (talk) 09:06, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Changed the picture :) Adam080 (talk) 10:32, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Fantastic! Much much much much much better!! MaskedSinger (talk) 13:23, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Lead section in Israel

Over the past few days, there have been attempts to make big changes to Israel lead section. One user just removed the last paragraph. Discussions starts here and goes all the way down. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 23:18, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Liran Rotman

Could someone just have a check of recent IP edits to the stats of footballer Liran Rotman? I suspect they're probably in good faith, I just get nervous when I see IP editors changing stats when I don't read Hebrew and was struggling to machine-translate some of the references. Thanks. Le Deluge (talk) 18:39, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

God's Chosen People

I know wiki despises Israel but God chose them not Wikipedia and he will defend them. Amen Catdowell (talk) 21:45, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Hisham Sulliman

There were some edits on this actor by an IP changing it from Arab-Israeli to Palestinian.

This is a controversial topic, what should be shown in the articles?

Thanks for helping :) Adam080 (talk) 20:08, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

was fixed Adam080 (talk) 23:24, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Does the term Al-Aqsa Mosque need disambiguation?

Al Aqsa Mosque (the large compound) vs Al Aqsa Mosque (the small southern building, from where prayers are led)

300,000 worshippers at the Al Aqsa Mosque (the large compound), facing the Al Aqsa Mosque (the small southern building, from where prayers are led)

Please comment at Talk:Al-Aqsa Mosque#Requested move 30 May 2022 - we are in need of editors who have the time to review the sources. Our Al-Aqsa Mosque article is about the small building. The large compound, also known as Al-Aqsa Mosque, is our article Temple Mount.

For reference:

• Al Aqsa Mosque (Temple Mount) is the third holiest site in Islam
• Al Aqsa Mosque (Temple Mount) was the first qibla in Islam
• Al Aqsa Mosque (Temple Mount) gave its name to the Al Aqsa Intifada, and the al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
• Al Aqsa Mosque (Temple Mount) can hold over 300,000 people (note: the small building can hold only 5,000)
• Al Aqsa Mosque (Temple Mount) was recently in the news after clashes between Israeli soldiers and Palestinians: the location of the route is shown here
• Al Aqsa Mosque (building) is an important monument of early Islamic architecture
• Al Aqsa Mosque (building) houses the Imam of the Al Aqsa Mosque
• Al Aqsa Mosque (building) is where the Islamic prayers are led from

Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, what matters most is whether it is highly likely — much more likely than any other single topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined — to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term. It is also important to assess how the term is used amongst scholarly sources - an assessment of this has been provided at the discussion, and it would be good to have it confirmed by editors who have the time to review the sources themselves.

Thank you.

Onceinawhile (talk) 08:39, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

More editor contributions here would be appreciated. Many thanks. Onceinawhile (talk) 11:40, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Edit-warring on Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2022

Talk:Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2022#Recent revert. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 17:17, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Attack on Israeli editors

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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User:Onceinawhile reported three Israeli Wikipedia editors as sock puppets. I suggest we examine here Onceinawhile's edits, discuss how to prevent future attacks, and what steps to take here now.Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 05:43, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@חוקרת: Ah right, because singling out an editor for raising an SPI, before its conclusion, and calling it an attack ... is not an attack? Interesting view. @Once. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:30, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Onceinawhile's baseless allegations against Hebrew Wikipedia editors is an attack.Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 06:33, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Two points 1)This forum is not the place for this 2)The statement I suggest we examine here Onceinawhile's edits, discuss how to prevent future attacks, and what steps to take here now sounds to me like something that ought to be reported. Selfstudier (talk) 08:08, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Israeli editors were attacked for being Israeli, their Israeli status was the basis of this horrible sockpuppet report. This Israel WikiProject is the most relevant forum on the English Wikipedia, though I might open a discussion up on the Hebrew Wikipedia if anyone has a good suggestion for a page there. There is good cause to examine Onceinawhile's other recent edits.Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 08:15, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

WP:ASPERSIONS, I suggest you refrain from making any further such. Selfstudier (talk) 08:26, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

That report, was ASPERSIONS, and was based on "timecards suggestive of the Israel timezone".Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 08:30, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I refer you to my previous comment. Selfstudier (talk) 08:33, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@חוקרת: Incidentally, none of these three editors declare themselves to be Israeli on their user pages, so either you are yourself casting aspersions about all of the editors involved, or you know this for sure, either because they have told you that they are so, or, at worse, you are yourself outing them, which would be yet another problematic behavior on your part. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:49, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Look at the Hebrew Wikipedia homepages, where these are longtime editors.[1][2]Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 08:54, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

That's two ... and Tombah? are you just casually lumping them in with the other two? My point is you also shouldn't be jumping to conclusions. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:00, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Tom uploads wonderful pictures from Israel that he photographs by himself.Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 09:06, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not saying it's not likely, but you're still not quite beyond the realm of synth there are you? And it's not your place to define others. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:16, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@Iskandar323, check again. It is concluded. Tombah (talk) 06:33, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@Tombah: It wasn't at the time that this thread was opened, and, as Self notes, the broader concern here is that plotting to stalk another editor is problematic. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:42, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

These are points that stand regardless of the merits of the SPI case, i.e.: matters of general principle, regardless or how well merited (or not) that filing was. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:44, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Please explain. This is too vague. Tombah (talk) 08:45, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

"Plotting"?? Are you suggesting a conspiracy here on WikiProject Israel? I posted out here in the open, for a public discussion among Israeli editors on Wikipedia on what to do about this kind of baseless attack on Israeli editors. We are allowed to discuss further steps.Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 08:48, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@חוקרת: What is "I suggest we examine here Onceinawhile's edits" if not suggesting of an organised activity - here specifically in pursuit of another editor? Iskandar323 (talk) 08:50, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Do you have anything to say about the now concluded SPI? I'm curious, and I'm listening. Tombah (talk) 08:54, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

It's somewhat off-topic, but I personally don't think you're a sock and would not have pursued an SPI based on that level of evidence. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:57, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Off-topic? I don't think so. The purpose of this discussion was to address this issue. How can it be that I feel persecuted all the time here? It's now obvious that there's a reason for my feelings. I'd like to hear your take on this. Tombah (talk) 09:05, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@Tombah: I would say that things like this, cases of various types, happen to all of us at one time or another. You just have to develop a thick skin I'm afraid, and just focus on continuing with the kind of editing you enjoy. If a certain topic is stressing you out, just can always take a break, or step back from disputes. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:18, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

A transgression was made, that is a good reason for checking. I suggesting that this WikiProject discuss the potential for a check of the edits.Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 08:56, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

@חוקרת: I would say that you are on exceptionally thin ice here in a numbers of ways, and I would suggest that you rethink your approach. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:58, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

If anyone feels aggrieved about something the usual procedures apply, an editors talk page is the first port of call and then AE the logical follow up. Using this page as an attack page is a bad idea, it is not the correct place for dispute resolution. Selfstudier (talk) 09:22, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

חוקרת, there is no need for any discussion, public or otherwise, about another user. That would be a personal attack, which is prohibited. Drsmoo (talk) 13:19, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I have nothing more to add to the SPI thread. I believe the involvement of the two low-[enwiki]edit-count users at the RM in such a short time-window was statistically impossible to be a coincidence. I had missed the fact that despite their low edit counts, these two editors are highly experienced on hewiki. The admin at the SPI said it seems to be off-wiki canvassing.

@Tombah, Eladkarmel, and Atbannett: please could you confirm for us here - did you have any off-wiki communication about the Al-Aqsa Mosque RM prior to your involvement there? Onceinawhile (talk) 09:31, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

I did not. And I was very disappointed to see that someone would accuse me of being a SP, when a simple check would show that I am here for over 15 years, with tens of thousands of edits, in all languages. Atbannett (talk) 10:04, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmation. Please could you explain how you came to know about the closure of the RM? In my experience it would be unusual to have had a page on a watchlist which had never previously been edited or commented on (either here or on other language wikis), and if it had been watched over the last seven weeks, a comment could have been made on the RM previously. An average of 3 edits per month over 15 years, and never once before commenting on another editor's RM, makes this a unique occurrence in your enwiki edit history. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:27, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Against my better judgment, a couple of things. A. Onceinawhile, that SPI was baseless. Atbannett has been here for 16 years and while he or she does not have a ton of edits here, they have some 55 thousand on the Hebrew Wikipedia. Tombah's edits seem miles away from Eladkarmel in a ton of ways, from the substance to the formatting to the level of English. You really should reconsider the way youre seemingly interrogating others, play the ball not the man. If you have actual evidence of misconduct, not this seems odd or it doesnt feel right to me, then you can present that, but nothing in that SPI shows any evidence that those editors are the same. And they are not obligated to answer your questions. B. This section is an abuse of this Wikiproject, and the one below suggesting sometimes it is easier to talk in Hebrew as though this WikiProject, or any other page, should be used to coordinate strategy against an editor or page is risible, and any editor who participates in this WikiProject and doesnt want it associated with such blatantly poor behavior should shut this down asap and even consider reporting the editor yourself. This is unreal, and the admins that I know of that are listed as members should do something about it. Pinging Ynhockey and Number 57. nableezy - 22:13, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes I spotted that myself on the SPI - I hadn’t looked at global contributions at first. As soon as I saw their status as experienced editors on another wiki, I knew my initial assessment was wrong. I don’t have the same level of insight you have shown in assessing English or formatting. I have always relied on an Occam's razor-type approach to SPIs – focusing on the relative probability of the scenarios.

Overall, I read the conclusion of your point A above as saying that we shouldn’t bother trying to identify or discourage the possibility of invisible off-wiki canvassing. Because there is no forum for assessing canvassing (maybe I should try to set one up?), and it cannot be assessed like an SPI, it can only be done using a probability-based assessment, and by asking the editors in question. Unless you know of another way? Onceinawhile (talk) 23:59, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

If you dont have actual evidence you need to keep your suspicions to yourself. Yes, the timing is suspicious. That is not enough to badger the users about it. I think lots and lots of solicitation happens off-wiki. Until I have some evidence of it however thats just my own personal opinion that stays personal. nableezy - 01:36, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Why is statistical-improbability not evidence? Is it really less weighty and objective than the language comparisons you successfully use in SPIs?

Do you see my point that there are only two types of evidence that can be used to identify off-wiki canvassing – probability and ability to explain?

Onceinawhile (talk) 05:50, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I have been doing a bit more reading on canvassing / votestacking. I always understood it to be on par with sockpuppeting as a deadly sin. But now I see from discussions like this one in 2019 between eminently sensible editors that there is a sizeable view in the community that canvassing - even with the intent to votestack - is fine so long as noone sees it. I really am shocked to see that view, and need some time to digest it. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:02, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

The off-wiki canvassing you're describing is called Meatpuppetry, and is prohibited. Drsmoo (talk) 13:19, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

That is part of it. As I understand it, Meatpuppetry relates primarily to new single-purpose accounts. The broader term is WP:Votestacking. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:44, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

"as though this WikiProject, or any other page, should be used to coordinate strategy against an editor or page is risible, and any editor who participates in this WikiProject and doesnt want it associated with such blatantly poor behavior should shut this down asap and even consider reporting the editor yourself." Isn't that kind of a stretch from what was actually said? Sir Joseph ^(talk) 13:40, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it is. The No Personal Attacks article goes into detail on why this is bad. Drsmoo (talk) 13:45, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I suggest we examine here Onceinawhile's edits, discuss how to prevent future attacks, and what steps to take here now. But sure, since nobody here wants to deal with it and would rather cheer it on I can report it myself. nableezy - 13:46, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hebrew project subpage

Would anyone be interested in a sub-page of this project that will use Hebrew for discussion? Or maybe a Hebrew Wikipedia page associated with our project?

האם מישהו יהיה מעוניי בתת-דף של הפרוייקט הזה שיתנהל בעברית? או אולי דף בויקיפדיה העברית לדיונים? זה יכול לעזור, כי לפעמים יותר קל להתנהל בעברית. Researcher (Hebrew: חוקרת) (talk) 08:28, 19 July 2022 (UTC)