Category talk:Wildcats

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Wildcat confusion

According to the IUCN, there are two species of wildcats, each with multiple subspecies. In addition, many former subspecies are now synonyms. Which means some clean-up regarding WP's current wildcat articles is in order.

To start with, I propose to start with: continue clean-up of African wildcat to cover the species Felis lybica. Also, elevate the article European wildcat to cover the species F. silvestris; information specifically pertaining to the nominate subspecies should be moved to Felis silvestris silvestris (currently a redirect). Another page Felis lybica lybica will also need to be created to cover that subspecies.

Next, clean-up the current subspecies pages: Caucasian wildcat (F. s. caucasica), Southern African wildcat (F. l. cafra), and Asiatic wildcat (F. l. ornata). Then merge the page Arabian wildcat into African wildcat. The pages Corsican wildcat and Cretan wildcat will also need to be merged, into either African wildcat or European wildcat (suggestions?).

Continue to use the page Scottish wildcat, despite the subspecies being considered invalid, due to the population itself being notable. Make it absolutely clear that its subspecific status is currently debated, and that the IUCN Task Force did NOT consider it a subspecies. Mention it on the European wildcat & F.s. silvestris pages, but generally restrict Scottish wildcat-specific information to that article.

Finally, reduce the Wildcat article to either a disambig page pointing to the two species, or a much shorter article.

Any comments, suggestions, yays/nays? --SilverTiger12 (talk) 15:46, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: per the species split, should [Category:Wildcat subspecies] be deleted, in favor of creating two new categories [Category:European wildcat subspecies] (including Scottish wildcat) and [Category:African wildcat subspecies]? The two species pages + Wildcat would be categorized under cat:Felis.--SilverTiger12 (talk) 16:09, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have nominated [Category:Wildcat subspecies] for speedy deletion.--SilverTiger12 (talk) 17:39, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Link Category:Wildcat subspecies. please seek broader input, these page are almost never watched. See the notice above. Emptying a category and asking it be speedy deleted as 'empty' is also not the best way of going about things. You did this with no edit summary and your speedy notice says this "… in a deletion discussion (or was emptied outside of that process)". I'm removing the notice, but hoping I have got this wrong and you were applying good practice. cygnis insignis 17:55, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

cygnis insignis, I emptied that category to make room for the two new, more appropriate categories. I re-categorized all the wildcat subspecies pages into the new cat's.--SilverTiger12 (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For the time being, I do ..

→ not agree to dissolve the Wildcat page into a disambig page, because 1) as defined in the lead, this is considered a species complex; and 2) it contains info that would otherwise have to be repeated in at least two pages, e.g. about evolution, behaviour, communication, and more info that has been compiled by many contributors over several years.

→ not agree to merging Arabian wildcat, Asiatic wildcat and Southern African wildcat into African wildcat; there is more info available, i.e. reliable sources, than currently referenced in these 3 pages.

→ agree to merging the Caucasian wildcat page into European wildcat; I checked several times in past years, but did not find any publication about field surveys in the Caucasus; remember one mention of wildcat in Turkey years ago, but not subspecific.

Taxo status of Scottish wildcat is NOT disputed, but clearly subordinated to F. silvestris, several times by various authors, foremost Kitchener. So yes to keep this standalone. And yes to merge Corsican wildcat to feral cat, as proposed already in Dec. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 18:16, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Re Cretan wildcat: i opt to keep this stub as is, i.e. not merge; considered feral cat at present, so neither European wildcat nor African wildcat pages would be appropriate to merge this into. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 18:36, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BhagyaMani, Asiatic, Southern African, and Caucasian wildcats are clearly stated as being different subspecies in the IUCN report. Moreover, I did not propose merging any of those three (as it happens, I am about to expand Caucasian wildcat). I propose that Scottish wildcat be kept because it is a notable population- the article is substantial in size, and the topic clearly has some controversy around it. I placed Scottish wildcat in cat:European wildcat subspecies b/c it is (a) a former subspecies, and (b) there is still dispute over whether or not F.s.grampia is a subspecies.--SilverTiger12 (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SilverTiger12: It seems that some publications escaped your notice re Scottish wildcat: this is clearly NOT considered a subspecies!! Creating more (sub)categories does not contribute to clarifying your or anybody else's confusion! -- BhagyaMani (talk) 19:07, 9 January 2019 (UTC), moved -- BhagyaMani (talk) 19:16, 9 January 2019 (UTC) Btw: being listed in ISIS as grampia has no relevance for taxonomic classification. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 19:16, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cretan wildcat

The article on the Cretan wildcat mentions various taxonomy theories, including that it may be "a hybrid between domestic cat and European wildcat". There does not seem to be a consensus view. Dimadick (talk) 10:42, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

True: no consensus, only theories. And as long as this is unresolved, I think it NOT appropriate to merge content of this page into African or European wildcat pages. If you know of any more recent, i.e. post Groves (1989), publication re its taxonomic status, please add to the page. -- BhagyaMani (talk) 11:19, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]