Help talk:Section

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empty sections[edit]

I could swear that back when I first started editing I read something that said there should not be empty sections in articles, but it doesn't seem to be here anymore. Did that change or am I just looking in the wrong place? Beeblebrox (talk) 08:35, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Given that an editor just added a bunch of empty sections to an Arrested Development article, I'd like an answer to this myself. Doniago (talk) 16:43, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Be bold and delete 'em — unless there's an {{Under construction}} template in place. — Robert Greer (talk) 16:22, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Sections for short articles[edit]

This article starts with "A page can and should be divided into sections" I think this should be changed to "A page of five or more paragraphs can and should be divided into sections" (italics indicate addition) so that we aren't instructing editors to try divide short, stubby, articles into sections; and so we don't have people hanging '{{sections}}' templates on one paragraph long stubs. RJFJR (talk) 21:17, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

It's actually a nice idea but let's see what other editors think. -- Joaquin008 (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

mediawiki - Sections HTML code convertion problem[edit]

Greetings ... im havving a REALLY annoying problem. I have my wiki in a local server and in an server somewhere else.

The CSS are exacly the same BUT, on my local wiki the sections text are in blue (correct) and in the outside server are in black (wrong). even if i modify the main.css in the outside server in wont change to blue. if i apply any other stype, line background color, or underline, etc .. it will apply, but the color it refuses to change. i even tryied to use "!importante" and nothing (locally the the !import works just fine).

I looked into the generated page code to try to figure it out and this is that i found:

In my local server, the section generated code looks like this

        <span class="mw-headline" id="Overview"> Overview </span>

In the other end ... on my external server the section generated code looks like this

        <span class="mw-headline" id="Overview">
                <a style="text-decoration:none;color:black" name="Overview"> Overview </a>

So.. i am almost sure that the problem is the style defined in the anchor. the question is .. why is that there??? i also found something interesting that may be a clue (for someone but not for me)

I found 2 wikis refering to "Help:Section" 
in this one (the one we are right now), they say that section work like in my local wiki
in this one it says that it works like on my external server

Is this any clue to anyone?

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

- Miguel (17-02-2011 14:34)

Usage of subsections[edit]

I am curious as to what, if any, the guideline or standard procedure is or might on the usage of subsections? This seems to be the most relevant page to ask the question, as I was recently "bitten" for using subsections where it seemed logical, despite being unable to find much guidance on usage, aside from "Very short or very long sections and subsections in an article look cluttered and inhibit the flow of the prose" (see Wikipedia:Guide_to_layout#Headings_and_sections).

While I agree with a couple of the reverts made (I was basing them on the usage of subsections elsewhere on the page, i.e. a principle of internally consistent usage), the commenter said that subsections should be avoided, something that runs at odds with the particular flavor of my academic training in writing, i.e. clarity of content organization. This is made in light that people using Wikipedia will (from my own experience and observation), using the ToC, often go to a particular section of a long article to find material, rather than reading the whole article.

Given that the section headings are available in theory down to ======h6=====, how much are mere ===heading3=== (subsections) to be avoided? Is it a rule of avoidance unless "necessary" (and what constitutes necessary?) as suggested by the commenter, or one of moderation? When several distinctly clustered but only vaguely related ideas are headed together across several full paragraphs with no intuitive order (i.e. not chronological), or in the case of history, clear and distinctive themes or "arcs of events", are subsections sometimes warranted? Has any discussion already been done on this matter? I am afraid to do much work until this is clarified, for fear of being bitten again. Please advise, as I think others too might find this valuable and useful. Morgan Riley (talk) 21:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Not an edit request from a newb[edit]

Anyone have any ideas why there are so many misplaced edit requests here? Is there some confusing link to Help:Section somewhere that’s making people want to edit the wrong page? Vadmium (talk) 13:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC).

Misplaced newbie edit requests[edit]

A discussion at WP:VPR#Add the ability to override the default "this page is protected" edit notice may give the ability to override the standard MediaWiki:Protectedpagetext notice, which may be useful for this page. Please comment there. Thanks. Anomie 15:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

FYI, you should now be able to create Template:Editnotices/Protection/Help:Section to display a different notice when non-autoconfirmed users try to edit Help:Section. Anomie 15:02, 13 September 2011 (UTC)


Has NOTOC quit working? --Another Believer (Talk) 18:55, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Seems to work fine, judging by 2004. Why do you ask? Anomie 19:58, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Oops! I am referring to the wrong command. I meant to ask about the NOEDITSECTION command... I will do some additional investigating. --Another Believer (Talk) 00:37, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
You're right about that one. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 93#NOEDITSECTION stopped working, bug 331647, and r100756. No idea when the fix will actually be applied to Wikipedia. Anomie 01:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Agreed completely. I personally believe that the NOTOC has stopped functioning. Abhijay Talk?/Deeds 06:55, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Placing "edit" button near Section name[edit]

How can I set this option? On German Wikipedia it's enabled by default. With the huge resolutions today, it's really annoying to have the "edit" buttons so far on the right on the screen. When you have short sections, you can't be sure you push the right "edit" button. —  Ark25  (talk) 07:45, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

It's one of the options available here. Doniago (talk) 14:56, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! —  Ark25  (talk) 01:27, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
All part of the service. :) Doniago (talk) 13:58, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Section linking does not work for me[edit]

You may need to look at this post in edit mode to see the coding issue I'm trying to illustrate

displayed text

is supposed to link to the section with "displayed text"

But for me, it doesn't work as expected.

For instance,

If I copy the illustration, put double brackets and don't put in an extra space before "Health" ("| Health") the result is

[effects of particle pollution]

It displays " effects of particle pollution"

as a link, but when clicked that link does not go to the "health effects" section, but only to the top level article "Particulates"

As an experiment,

Health effects of particle pollution

Returns a link that looks as it should,

(It says "Health effects of particle pollution")

But when you click on it, it does not actually go to the health effects section. It goes to the general article, i.e., the same as if the link were just Particulates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocdnctx (talkcontribs) 02:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The syntax [[page name#section name|displayed text]] does work for an internal link. For example, [[Particulates#Health_effects|Health effects of particle pollution]] gives "Health effects of particle pollution" just as intended.
However, the syntax is different for external links, i.e. those beginning with "http://". In that case, you use a space instead of a pipe character and use only one bracket: [ Health effects of particle pollution] gives Health effects of particle pollution. Anomie 02:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
This has also been asked and answered at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Section linking does not work for me. Please don't ask the same in different places, and if you do it anyway in a special case then link them together. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:15, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Collapse TOC[edit]

Is it possible that TOC is auto collapsed? I want to have a collapsed TOC for the article I am working into.--Renzoy16 (talk) 15:47, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Looking for a vertical/horizontal TOC[edit]

I'm wondering whether anyone here can help me find an alternative TOC for an article I'm working on that has a long TOC. It's for White House Farm murders, where the toc is necessarily long and becoming hard to read, but the horizontal toc (see this version) looks confusing.

What I'm looking for is a TOC that's a vertical/horizonal mix that would produce something like this:

1 The Bambers (1.1 Nevill and June Bamber; 1.2 Sheila Caffell; 1.3 Jeremy Bamber; 1.4 Extended family and financial considerations)
2 The murder weapon
3 White House Farm, 7 August 1985 (3.1 Sheila's visit; 3.2 Telephone calls), and so on.

Does such a thing exist? SlimVirgin (talk) 21:43, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Of course you can make a custom TOC with hand-made section links like this and this and, then, override the MediaWiki TOC table with __NOTOC__. But this solution will require a future maintenance each time when sections will be renamed or rearranged. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 10:29, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Probably not a good idea, given the maintenance issue, and not sure I'd know how to do it anyway. Thanks for the reply. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:41, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Has there been a change in the TOC code?[edit]

Hey, y'all. I was just wondering if there had been some sort of change in the code for the automatic table of contents on articles? I have noticed on a few articles that the table is now putting section headings onto two lines, rather than simply expanding as much as possible to fit everything in on one. I don't really like the new look, so I was wondering if this had been changed by consensus or just by chance? Thanks in advance for any replies! Andre666 (talk) 14:07, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Yo, anyone got any knowledge on this? Andre666 (talk) 15:52, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I noticed yesterday the TOC on my user page and some (all?) articles has expanded to the full width of the page (never seen that before), but then it's still the normal width on some pages, like MOS:BIO. What's up with that? If it's a new default, is it possible to limit TOC width for articles with infoboxes so they don't overlap? Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 15:22, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Glitch from changes to the TOC structure in the last update. Do a bypass to fix: WP:BYPASS. --  Gadget850 talk 15:30, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! That got it. Wilhelm Meis (☎ Diskuss | ✍ Beiträge) 15:39, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Editing references in section[edit]

Hi, I was wondering if it would be possible to show the references in the 'Show Preview' view that are added to a section (not sure if this is the right place to ask for such a feature request). If one now wants to edit a section, then the preview only shows the section that has been edited. The references, usually placed at the bottom of the article, could have changed as well and any typos in the references therefore become unnoticed. A novice editor in particular might find previewing the references useful. Qsq (talk) 20:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

This is addressed in this article now. I haven't checked the history to see when it was added. You can add a {{Reflist}} template to your section temporarily, preview it to ensure that the references look right, and then delete the {{Reflist}} template before you save changes. Jonesey95 (talk) 03:33, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Auto-collapse the TOC[edit]

Probably a dumb question, but is there anyway to auto-collapse the TOC? _NOTOC_ gets rid of it completely, but I want to just have it collapsed on the page by default (with the "show" option available, obviously). This isn't for an article, just for a user talk page. Manning (talk) 03:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Manning, see Template:TOC hidden. :) (only a year late ;) –Quiddity (talk) 17:48, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Still counts. Can't for the life of me remember what I wanted to know this for though. Cheers Manning (talk) 23:36, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Transcluding sections[edit]

Sections can now be transcluded by use of <section> and the #lst and #lstx functions. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 17:05, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Prevent adding headings to TOC[edit]

Hello, on the German Wikibook there is the page Modul:LuaDokumentation which includes other templates as examples containing headings. Those headings are now added to the page's TOC and make it ugly. Is there a way to say the Wikimedia software to not include headings in special areas to the TOC? Maybe a special div block? I know, that I can replace the default TOC, but I am just curious, whether there is a better way. Greetings Stephan Kulla (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

See {{TOC limit}}, which has a version on the German Wikipedia. --  Gadget850 talk 18:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes I know it, but it would not help, because the included headers are h2 headings and they cannot be excluded without excluding the other useful headers, too. Now I have a solution with creating the my own TOC. Greetings Stephan Kulla (talk) 19:55, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

What is the default TOC limit?[edit]

I don’t see this mentioned anywhere on the page, though I would have expected to see it in the section on limiting the depth of the TOC: What is the default depth limit, if there is one? Or is every section heading, all five possible levels, included by default? —Frungi (talk) 06:43, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

The default is that every heading is shown. I've added a sentence to make this explicit. See the current contents of User:John of Reading/Sandbox for an example. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:44, 4 August 2013 (UTC)


I would like to inform you that my 'table-of-contents chrome extension' [1] creates an expandable toc on the left, always visible, that facilitates reading of long articles. Synagonism (talk) 09:38, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2013[edit]

big boss 7 winner is Gauhar khan (talk) 19:06, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Help:Section. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. --ElHef (Meep?) 19:52, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Complication about renaming a section: moving out Section linking and redirects subsection[edit]

The telling about "A complication is that, unlike renaming a page, renaming a section does not create any redirect from the old section name. Therefore incoming links to the old section name will have to be fixed." and so on, is put in the "Section linking and redirects" subsection (subsection of "Section linking" section).

However the issue is not related specifically to redirects, it applies to every link to a section

So that telling should be moved out "Section linking and redirects" subsection to the main "Section linking" section

Furthermore the Template:HA cited there has been deleted. -- (talk) 11:20, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Linking to a subsection[edit]

Greetings! Does anobody know how to make an intra-link to a subsection? For example, if there was an hypothetical article Alphabet, and it had a section called == Vowels == and a subsection === Letter A ===, how can you make an intra-link to the subsection === Letter A ===? (Alphabet -> Vowels -> Letter A)

I tried to find an answer from the Help -section, but there was no mention of such a case. Therefore, I'd like to suggest that such instructions are included to the current Help -site :P Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:56, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

@Jayaguru-Shishya: Please see the answer left at Help talk:Link#Linking to a subsection, also WP:MULTI. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2014[edit]

Hi admin please edit the article list of indian records in swimming. 25 meters short corse its incomplete correct infomation is 25 meters 23.12 secs, 50 meters club india. Name Vijay Jesudas Kanthraj world championship, Held at Italy Torino. Please update the correct information. Thank you News deccanherald (talk) 20:05, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

@News deccanherald: Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is the talk page for discussing improvements to the page Help:Section. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:06, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Putting "New Section" elswhere[edit]

Cross posted from here as I wasn't scertain where was better

On my talk page I receive a lot of RFC's I like to keep them separate from the actual discussion with editors on my page for clarity's sake. Is there a piece of code I could insert which would allow the pressing of the New Section button to have their section created mid page rather than at the bottom of the page? SPACKlick (talk) 11:49, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Per WP:MULTI, I've answered on the original thread. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:45, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Is it possible to exclude a specific section from the TOC?[edit]

Hello, I'd like to remove this #Notes section from the TOC. Is it possible? Thanks. (talk) 19:25, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Look at it now, is that what you wanted? GB fan 19:33, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, ; was a good work-around in this case. I'd still be interested to know if it's possible to have a specific ===SubSection=== removed from the TOC. Cheers. (talk) 19:45, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
@GB fan: Please don't use semicolons in that manner, see MOS:ACCESS#Headings where it says "do not make pseudo-headings using bold or semicolon markup". This was discussed recently at Help talk:Wiki markup#semicolon issue? and also at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Layout#Headings. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:07, 12 October 2014 (UTC)