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Indexing with DEFAULTSORT[edit]

User:Badagnani asked in his edit summary "Isn't this just as easy?" He had reverted this, using the new (added in Jan 2007) magic word:

  • {{DEFAULTSORT:Ceng}}
  • [[Category:String instruments]]

to this older and still effective method:

  • [[Category:String instruments|Ceng]]

The answer is that it is sometimes easier, often a bit harder (most any time there is more than one category explicitly listed, for example). But it is almost never as good.

Why not? A couple of reasons:

  • Indexing the individual category is not effective when someone comes along later and adds another category without adding the sort key for it. I've seen that thousands of times, where someone adding a new category remains totally oblivious to the sort key in the categories already there, and does not follow their example.
  • Indexing the individual category is totally ineffective at fixing the indexing of categories which do not explicitly appear on the edit page, but are rather added by some template.
  • That includes stub categories, but nobody really worries much about them yet. Maybe as the new magic word gains ground, people will see that the stub categories can also be fairly easily sorted correctly, and that will change.
  • The bigger problem is the hundreds of infoboxes and navigation boxes which add categories, defaulting to the article name, unless the category is also manually added below the template using the proper sort key, or the new magic word is used to set a different default.

And of course, combining the two points, DEFAULTSORT will be effective with such infoboxes and navigation boxes which might be added in the future, as well as ones already there.

It is easier not to even bother to see if any of the categories are added by a template and thus not visible in the listing, and just add the DEFAULTSORT which will work if there are any of them. Gene Nygaard 18:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion[edit]

This paragraph is inaccurate: "Çengs are still widely used in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and many other Central Asian countries.[citation needed]" It seems to refer to the hammered dulcimer "chang." Harps of any sort died out hundreds of years ago in all these regions. Badagnani 13:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


What is the etymology of the name "Çeng"? Because the name looks and sounds very similar to the Mandarin zheng and the Vietnamese dan tranh, and so there could be a relation? Le Anh-Huy 04:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

That's a very good question. In Central Asia, "chang" can also refer to hammered dulcimers. Badagnani 04:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I am an Iranian and I am sure the word "Çeng" which is pronounced as "Chang" means "Claw" in Persian language.Pouyakhani (talk) 02:48, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Georgian changi[edit]

Information about a Georgian instrument called "changi" should be placed in an article entitled Changi, not this one, which is about a Turkish instrument. Badagnani (talk) 06:48, 29 December 2007 (UTC)