Talk:2001 Bradford riots

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Re-write

In the wake of the severe abbreviation of this article earlier I gave it a thorough re-write. I tried to use what I could of previous versions but where they contradicted published sources I went with the published sources and much of what I kept I re-wrote. I have removed the cleanup tags but please don't feel that this version is in any way definitive. I fully expect it to be edited mercilessly. MGSpiller 22:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have cleared up some factual errors by the above writer. 5 June 2006 (RC)

Reversions

I am reverting several of the points raised by user:82.38.58.18 but as many of these points could easily arise again I'm discussing each on the talk page.

all demos were banned
all the printed sources (BBC etc) seem to agree that the Anti Nazi League march was allowed.
An asian man was stabbed in the initial confrontation
the word stabbed is based on the "red hot curry" report of the court of appeal judgement. I would prefer to read the court records of the appeal court itself as this account may well be biased but without an alternative source I feel it stands for the moment.
Stockpiles of petrol bombs and weapons.
I have not seen this in the reports I have read can this be cited please?

MGSpiller 22:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Closure of pubs. This is an interesting point, there are definitly several pubs which have closed permanently in the immedieate aftermath of the riots, the upper globe springs to mind. Can anyone list all or most of them? Also this would be usefully illustrated by a quote (if one exists) from the Muslim comunity illustrating their dislike of pubs. MGSpiller 19:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why does it say the stabbing of a WHITE man caused the riot. it was actually an ASIAN man that was origionally stabbed. i'll leave someone to else to change this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.165.175.179 (talk) 13:40, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Where is your evidence for that change. Supply a reliable source for what you state. Keith D (talk) 15:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Asian man or white man

By publishing inconclusive & therefore inaccurate information on this article regarding white/black doing this or that we do not serve any purpose for society other than to further raise racial tensions.

There is already a source on the Flashpoint section of the article (number 10) that points to an Asian lad being stabbed. And from my extensive cross racial and gender links within the local community (white and asian) and the eye witness accounts from reputable sources such as a local councilor, all agree with the quoted source. However, I do not believe it would detract from the article if the COLOUR of the person stabbed was omitted to save argument and more importantly further racial tension. Hence I ask everyone to respect humanity and leave the colour out of the Flashpoint section. Abu-bakrUK (talk) 02:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions

I think this article could be vastly improved - I'd look at the Oldham Riots article for some guidance/consistency/ideas. The article is (currently) too POV, and given that it's such a controversial topic, needs LOTS more referencing!

Just to clarify also - if we say "was brought about as a result of tension between ETHNIC COMMUNITIES" - whilst Ethnic does mean ethinic group of any heritage - to some it automatically means ethnic minority and so should be rephrased... and to continue with "and agitation on the part of the far right" - this is VERY POV without a source. Whilst I agree with the statement, it needs a bit of a re-write to avoid future disputes and then a good reference (a governmental review or such) should make it a more NPOV and verifiable statement. Jhamez 84 00:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lidget Green disturbance

This was NOT the famous Bradford Riots of 2001, and in-fact, most of the violence came from a coach party of mostly white youths from outside the area, who attacked a Hindu wedding party in the Coach House public house. Some Muslim youths joined in the distrubance afterwards, in a revenge capacity, attacking the far-right coach party, and also (allegedly) taking vandalising actions against a Hindu-run newsagents shop, and several Hindu-owned cars.

Most of the violence against Hindu people (in this particular mini-distrubance) was caused in the pub, by the white gatecrashers to the Hindu wedding.

Some people on here are sewing mischievious inaccuracies, for whatever end and means.

Let's not stoke tensions by distorting the facts please!

I have correctly asserted the facts illustrated by the link, surrounding Lidget Green. Hopefully the anterior motives surrounding the mischief makers, won't allow the truth to be tarnished with distorted opinion.

— [Unsigned comment added by 82.38.32.119 (talk • contribs) 09:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC).][reply]

NB I'm not attempting to lay blame at any party but merely intending to explain my understanding of what happened. I have a friend who was in that pub that day. The next day he phoned us up somewhat in shock at what had happened, but said that on the morning of the riot it was "common knowledge" that there was a coach going around the area and dropping people of in twos and threes, who then went into local establishments, and spread rummours that several local mosques had been firebombed. These people had strong West Midlands accents (which would suggest links to people who may have disapproved of the mixed culture wedding). Perhaps more worrying is there was a very minour incident in the pub before there was big trouble anywhere in Bradford, to which the pub attempted to use the direct line to the police station, only to receive "your call can't be answered at this time". NB this was a good two hours before the trouble flared up, and suggest the police were VERY busy that morning, or else there were problems with the phone system.

While there were undoubably many Asisans caught up in /driving the trouble in the center of town, did anyone else see the footage on news 24(at about 1:45am, and I've never seen repeated again) which showed an "Asian" with a somewhat streaky tan attacking a police office, and running away. It is of course skin colour why the the majority of the blame was laid on Asians, and yet the streaky tan could well suggest a fake tan, consistant with SOME degree of outside adjactation —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve10345 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Muslim

Can we please show that this fighting involved muslim groups and reduce the use of the word asian and instead use the word muslim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.6.161.60 (talk) 23:35, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

no it did not involve muslim groups. the people just happened to be muslim as they make up the majority of south asians in bradford. some hindu and sikh people were also involved. there was not a single muslim group that lead or encouraged the riots. instead muslim groups were trying to stop the riots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.25.128 (talk) 19:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is just not true:

The Economist Magazine ( June 17th 1995 edition ) reported that No Hindu nor Sikh youths took part, only Muslim males. Indian owned business were attacked. In fact other reports state that older, masked Muslims ( thought to be HUT ) went down the streets ahead of everyone else, and specifically marked out Sikh and Hindu shops with spray paint, for destruction by rioters following them.[1]

Show me one Hindu or Sikh who was arrested. -- Q Chris (talk) 20:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This proves nothing, if you go Paki bashing then it is naturally the Pakistani element of Asians that will retaliate. This is about Colour & Nationality, not Religion - of any kind! Abu-bakrUK (talk) 02:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

HVK, supposedly quoting the economist, is not a reliable source - the above link makes a series of dubious statements, - incidentally who or what are "HUT"? Pahari Sahib (talk) 22:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that HVK is not a reliable source, I will try to get hold of an original. Having seen Hindu businesses burnt selectively and Moslem ones left standing I know this to be the case. HUT is Hizb ut-Tahrir. -- Q Chris (talk) 08:26, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Demographics references

The references here are to another wiki article - this cannot be counted as a reliable reference. The reference should point to reliable 3rd party references. Keith D (talk) 20:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1430437.stm Lord Hattersley - "These young Muslim men ... believe they are being neglected, they believe the are being ignored," Hindus and Sikhs are minorities there and have cultural differences with the Pakistani muslims. The Hindus and Sikhs are more likely to be attacked than the white man. Please remove the generalisation of the south asian community. It is highly distorting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.142.199 (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Title

Why "Bradford race riots" rather than "Bradford riots"? There were several non-race factors in the riots, not least class, which is mentioned in the article, as well as generation (e.g. could equally be called "Bradford youth riots"? BobFromBrockley (talk) 11:19, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The only element of racism the riots contained was the Fascist British National Party or BNP and the National Front. It was these groups desire to spread their incendiary ideology that was the catalyst behind the tension behind the riot. The retaliation from the Asian community consisted of many nasty things but racist chanting for example was not a major part. Abu-bakrUK (talk) 02:45, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am proposing changing the title of the page by the morning of Saturday the 15th, this gives enough time for any objections to this. Abu-bakrUK (talk) 01:53, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please propose via a move request as this is probably likely to be controversial. People may not be watching this talk page. Thanks. Keith D (talk) 22:43, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2001 Bradford race riots → 2001 Bradford riots — A brief discussion has already taken place on the renaming of this article page. The reasoning for this is that there were several factors other than race that caused the riots and several types of incidents took place during the riots without race being a major factor, the riots mainly took place between Asian youths and police officers. There were a tiny number of National Front supporters (who are known to be white supremacists) but the anger of the Asian youths was directed at the police, random cars, random businesses and pubs (to name a few) which don't particularly signify one race. There is more reasoning above in the 'Title' section. This move request is as per Keith D's recommendations above.--Abu-bakrUK (talk) 22:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

'Bradford is historically a working class city'

Surely all industrial cities (and therefore all except cathedral cities) could be classed as 'historically working class' and is Bradford particularly more than any other? In fact, surely it's fortunes have gone down since the industrial age? I am being pedantic but this seems to be irrelevant to the article.--86.27.155.40 (talk) 23:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bradford's fortunes may have gone down since the Industrial boom years but the article talks of 'Historically working class' and this is entirely appropriate. You cannot deny the City its history, not least to mention it as being the birthplace of the Labour Party. Abu-bakrUK (talk) 14:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]