This is an archive of past discussions about Afro. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
I know for a fact that this style has enjoyed a resurgence lately (at least in the past year or two), so that's why I put it there. -Anonymous
Speaking as a 'white-boy' with an afro, I disagree strongly with this article's negative angle on the afro people. I don't believe that afros are nowadays used for comical effect, in fact, I find this remark insulting. An afro is a way of expressing a different opinion of life to comformists, like the writer of the article in question. I am greatly annoyed, and the article is not to the standard of Wikipedia, which is a great site. Please change the article, or I will never wish to use Wikipedia again, as the article offends me deeply. JP
I don't understand why you're so butthurt by it. The fact of the matter is the Afro IS used more today as comedic effect. For example any sitcom will do a flashback and have a chacacter sporting an afro and bellbottoms and a big peace chain. It's ABSOLUTELY funny. The clothes and jive and attitudes are all part of the joke. I think the fact that you went out of your way to stay that you're white just show you're trying to find something to get offended about. It's all about context. If you can't wear an afro with pride that's YOUR problem. I've worn my hair natural for two years when I was younger and while there WAS jockularity I didn't see it as a hate crime to be joked on or whatever your agenda is. I didn't cry about it. Seriously, don't make it out to be more than it is. "Negative angle". Get off it, man.Utils05:04, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
About the "comical effect" comment, it says "used in popular culture for comical effect", and it refers strictly to fictional portrayals, see Nabeshin. As such, it should not be taken as an insult because it has no bearing on you.
And furthermore, that entire section refers only to afros in pop culture, again, it has nothing to do with real people.
I wrote the section in question, and personaly, I think afros are kind of cool, and have been wanting to get a decent looking afro wig for some time.
I don't think you realise what you've got yourself into here. I find this article offending, and I think I speak for all the afro people when I say that 'normal' people with westernised hairstyles who try to imitate the afro look, are trying to cause trouble. To us the feeble imitation of an afro, represented by a wig, is a symbol of mockery and oppression.
Returning to your point about "afros in pop culture", why do you think people wear afro wigs? To make a point about the oppression of slavery in South America? Or to get a laugh?
You people who are actually deeply offended by this article are glaring examples of people who have taken this political correctness/over-sensitive horse shit movement way too far. The afro hairstyle is just a hairstyle, and if you think people should walk on eggshells when refering to the way you and your "afro people", whom you have so generously have decided to represent, adorn the top of your heads then you need to go light yourself on fire. -Scott Dierb
While I agree that political correctness has ruined a lot of things, I questiom the way in which you ended you spiel there. "Light yourself on fire?" Good job. And by afro people he refers to those of us with african decent. After all, afro is short for African. And I understand his point about people with straight hair trying to have afros and corn rolls. The thing is, for straight hair to get that way it has to first get dirty and matted and icky. Pretty gross. And so this feeds the negative stereotype that we don't wash our hair. So that's pretty much part of where his anger is coming from. And I agree. People with Afros and dreads and other such hairstyles take good care of their hair. You HAVE to! SO yeah, there you go. Though as far as seeing a wig as mockery that's too militant for me. I don't agree there. And as for your comment about lighting himself on fire, I wish you the same. Or hopefully Darwinism will take care of you.Utils05:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Photo
Made a few corrections. No, teasing does not make an afro longer. There's no need to tease natural African hair. Teasing actually makes anyone's hair shorter. Straightening the hair and separating the coils using the widely spaced teeth of a pick are what gives afros their volume and length. Further, healthy, natural black hair isn't "stiff"; it's usually coarse, but soft -- kinda feels like camel hair to the touch. :-) It'd be nice to find a better picture than this cartoonish depiction. (Is this a photo of that skinny, black comedian -- what's-his-face?) Besides, the brother's afro definitely needs some TLC. In fact, it looks like an afro wig. Anyone got an old photo of Angela Davis or Kathleen Cleaver? deeceevoice 19:47, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It's the afro of the month ;) Had forgotten how big Diana's 'fro was! Dare I say it was a Jheri fro? Aika
Actually, Ross isn't in this photo (if this is the one you're referring to). This is after Diana split to perform solo. You may be referring to Cindy Birdsong, (far right). I knew her brother Walter "Meaty" at Howard University, and he had kinda in-between hair. That's all that is -- just a curly 'fro, probably done with the help of some big, bumpy rollers and a hair net at night. No, Cindy's 'fro is definitely not a "Jheri 'fro"; it ain't greasy, limp and slimy. (Yuck!) deeceevoice 15:37, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The only editor to this article who has found the mention of "Jewfro" offensive so far was a troll/group of sockpuppets who also (among other things) also added Richard Simmons to List of African Americans, which shows you how seriously he was taking any considerations of race.
I'm personally not sure if "Jewfros" are notable or non-trivial enough to include here, but i won't remove it if it's added; besides, it's not like Jews are the only non-African group who are able to maintain afros (a few Japanese are capable; see this picture of Shinichi Watanabe, for instance). -℘yrop(talk) 18:09, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
I think the article already makes it clear that other folks wear afros. I don't think it's necessary to mention the word "jewfro" in an encyclopedic entry. Further, I noticed that somewhere along the way someone deleted a sentence I'd added a while back: "Others, including members of other ethnic groups, wear the style simply as an edgy or retro fashion." I restored it. deeceevoice20:47, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
Many people of non-african ethnic groups are able to grow afros, it is funny that only Jews are metnioned here.
As a jew, I must say the term Jewfro is not offensive. In fact, it sounds funny. And the hairdo is very, very cool. Dmichelsohn 26/08/2006
Al Green's Photo
That is not really considered an Afro, The Supremes photo is what a real Afro looked like. Very long and bushy.
That article's AfD was just closed as a Merge with this article. Will someone please do so, including bringing a picture of Gabe Kaplan into this article? Thanks. Babajobu12:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
The jewfro section is a racist article with unreliable, false information. As a Jew i am outraged by this blatant anti-semitism and shall remove this section because it is not relevant to reality.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by69.160.17.133 (talk • contribs) .
I too am Jewish and I do not see any problems with the section. Can you please describe what you find false or anti-semitic? Thanks! Where(talk)01:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
It's racist? We're not even a race! It's a common term, and so it should stay. (Note that I am Jewish myself) --Rory09602:17, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Arabs are much more likely to have afros than us white jews because they are of pure eastern blood, not diluted to near non-existence like us. Italians from sicily who had contact with dark-skinned people are also more likely than us to have afros. I think if jewfro is mentioned the hairstyles of these people out to be discussed as well.
I'd like to see some sources too, I've never seen an Arab with an afro. Anyway, Jewfros aren't really real afros, it's just short, very curly hair typical of many Semites. Rory09602:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Walk into any of the Palestinian-owned delis in any inner city neighborhood in america and you will see Arab men with afros.
To whomever is adding the Arab/Italian stuff- we need references, like for the Jewfro section. Otherwise, the material will be removed. -- JJay05:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm white. Primarily of British Descent (a mix of Scottish, Irish, and English.) I have an afro myself, quite naturally with no grooming, but it is distinctly different than both "jewfros" and standard african afros. Having been a person who looks long and hard at other afro'ed people, they tend to fall into several different categories of hairtypes. Forgive me if this comes across as racist, but these are general truths when it comes to hair; obviously exceptions apply.
African hair is typically more coarse and stiff, obviously naturally much darker than other races' hair. The kinks and curls are much tighter than that of most other races. A natural african afro sticks very close to the head without considerable picking.
"Jewish" hair (although certainly not limited to Jews or applicable to all Jews) is far softer, but quite curly and compact. It stays closer to the head and is usually of a brown or "dirty blonde" color.
My hair--which I will refer to as "Scottish" hair, because thats the ethnicity I see it on most often--has very broad curls naturally, that don't follow any particular pattern. The hair kinks more than it curls, really, and tends to want to grow straight out, with a very springy wiry effect. The hair is quite dry and "puffs" to a considerably huge size, and has a lot of volume.
The other way to get an afro is through a perm. This is most likely the chosen route of most caucasians during the 1970's. (eg., The Beegees.) So, in short, Jewfro is not the only subset of afros out there. I may go ahead and find some citation for this and edit it myself, later. --Shaikoten18:48, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Did some work on this last night. (Or at least attempted to...) It's amazing how little info regarding this fantastic hairstyle there is out there ;) I have a couple of friends who do African Natural hairstyles, possibly they have reference material for this kind of stuff. --Shaikoten14:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Jews or anyone who can have an AFRO have Afros because they have AFRican blood in them. Some have called these Africans "darker peoples,' but they are Africans. Do you need to have Phd's to know this? If they did not have African blood, then all would have straight hair. If they were not mixed, then all would either have straight hair or Afros. Afros don't just come out of no where, you need Africans to get Afros, naturally. So hair that is wavey to kinky involved an African in the family bloodline. Asides from certain peoples wanting to deny this, it should not be shocking at all giving the history of Europe in it's relations with Africa(I am talking pre-slavery my man).--71.235.94.25416:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Jewfro
I believe that jewfro is deserving of its own page on wikipedia...do u agree or disagree?
The "History" section of this page is blatantly offensive.
Jewish Afros
VERY inaccurate. Most of these "Jewfros" are found on a PORTION of Ashkenazi Jews. If the section will stay, it MUST be mentioned that they are exclusive to SOME Ashkenazim only. 69.235.239.16803:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't Make Sense
This portion from the history section doesn't make sense to me:
"Afros are not always worn by Blacks only - for an humanoid in the Dustin Hoffman film Marathon Man of Cuban or Puerto Rican descent sported an Afro in the film and In the Blues Brothers feature film (1980) - musician Donald "Duck" Dunn was seen with an Afro,"
I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean so I'm not sure how to edit it, but perhaps someone who's been more involved in editing this page can figure out what to do. 204.130.6.817:25, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Blatant anti-jewish sentiment on Wiki
Wikipedia becomes more and more bigoted toward jews everyday...it is fucking pathetic. Some muslims have an afro or how bout those beards shall we call them musbeards? Muslbeards? Muslfros? I am sending this to every major news network to urge people not to use wikipedia unless this anti-semtism is changed.
I did a google search (regular and picture) and found absolutely NOTHING negative about. In fact until NOW and reading the DISCUSSION page I never once thought anything negative about it. If you're Jewish and your hair can do that then by all means brother AND SISTERS, get on the love train! Utils05:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
To the contrary, there's a jocular logic here which is not necessarily intended to be racist:
Afro = African, curly, round hairdo;
Jew-fro = Jewish, curly, round hairdo.
By this logic, if Jew-fro is acceptable, then we would indeed have to allow for "Arab-fros" in some circumstances, although the term could very objectionable to some Arabs. However, the obvious Japanese equivalent would more certainly be in bad taste (or worse), because "Jap" is commonly understood to be at best an insensitive, ignorant term. By contrast, "Jew" is an acceptable reference to a Jewish person. The source of the humor here seems to be in the clever mixture of the words, rather than in some notion that either Jews or afros are instrinsically funny.
"This chapter was my brother's Bar Mitzvah portion. (June, 1980, Temple Sinai. I wore dorky glasses. John had a Jew-fro.)"
Is this an illustration of Mr. Plotz's self- or brother-hatred, or a reminiscence of awkward youth which includes a reference to a possibly out-of-date hairstyle?
Perhaps non-Jewish writers should take care not to use this term carelessly, but at least Mr. Plotz has illustrated that one Jewish author appears to have no problem with using it.
Citing a blog? Please tell me you are kidding me? One blog I hardly call it common usage. But I'll get blocked for this comment. Because my original comment was a personal attack--Jerluvsthecubs21:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The point that I was clumsily trying to make is simply that this word may not have racist intent behind it, and hey look, here's a Jewish guy using it himself. On the other hand, as I suggested, maybe goyim should use it cautiously.
The "blog" that I cited is actually a regular column in a fairly significant web news journal (Slate), which has "Blogging" in its title, and is just one example of popular usage. Then there are the other examples in the Afro Wikipedia entry itself. See also www.cafepress.com/yidgear/298822, which I guess wouldn't exist if the word wasn't accepted in some Jewish circles. Then there are the several entries at http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JewFro <sexual language warning>, some of which seem flattering to the hairstyle. And then there is this petition from a fan to a musician: http://www.petitiononline.com/tr0hman/petition.html, which is clearly in favor of the hairstyle although doesn't present any argument for the neutrality of the word. And there were several other sites which came up when the term was googled, none of which at first glance appeared to be anti-Semitic in nature.
Personal attacks would have little effect on my views, but reasoning might work. I have tried to argue that this word is not bigotry, and that it is out there in the public. Can you put together an argument to the contrary?
I have heard the term frequently from Jews and non-Jews alike, applied to Jews and non-Jews alike with large curly hairstyles. I can't say I find it non-neutral, although White afro and Jewfro probably belong in the same article. Frankly, I'm in favor of having just one big afro. Balancer08:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the term is racist but what the relevence of "Jewfros"? Wikipedia isn't urbandictionary. Who cares if some Jewish people have Afros and that they are called Jewfros? Jewfro deserves a sentence at best...
So some people in here equate Afro (A black social and physical trait) with something offensive when also recognized among Jews. I forgot, anytime Jews are associated with Blacks, it is offensive to Jews! Of course many assume that the Jewish hair did not come from their Black heritage through the generations (from living in Black dominated 18th dynasty Ancient Egypt during the time of Moses, or among the Moors in Spain). So tell me why is Jewfro offensive? Is it the "Fro" part, relating to "afro" as in "African"? --Zaphnathpaaneah06:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Modern Origins and Odetta
Odetta, the folk singer, says that she was THE first person to wear an afro, in "'55 or '56" and that it was actually called 'The Odetta'. http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/magazine/daily/16126869.htm
(Q: You were one of the first women to wear an Afro. A: I was the first. They used to call it "The Odetta.")
If anyone could cross-reference this it would be worth adding! She had a lot of guts. AndoDoug07:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Unacceptable
"On November 20th, 2006, comedian Michael Richards apologized live via satellite on the Late Show with David Letterman for racist remarks made at California's Laugh Factory comedy club. In the apology, Richards referred to African-Americans as "Afro-Americans", giving reminder to the origin of the word 'afro'."
An anonymous user, User:71.112.7.212, with a long history of disruptive edits and contentiousness is asserting authority on what an afro is and removing the photo of a woman with afro curls. References to afro curls can be found here and here. Since this user is on the verge of being blocked for the behavior found on this page, I advise them to start making more productive edits to Wikipedia; any further removal of the photo will be reported to the editors at the above-linked discussion of the User's disruptive edits so they can take appropriate action. --David Shankbone16:05, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the smear David. Good way to foster constructive discussion! Your photo is not an afro. Afros look like this: . You took a picture of a pretty girl, congratulations. But she doesn't have an afro, and saying so is just original research, which wikipedia doesn't allow. 71.112.7.21206:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Ignore this disruptive troll. The picture is modern and appropriate. The history of the aftro extends from the 1960s to now. To assume it should simply be represented by an old-school picture from 40 years ago is ridiculous. It's clear that there are modern afro styles and they should not be dismissed by one argumentative troll's narrow views and odd behavior. BaseballDetective05:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Exactly, Baseball. It's best to ignore 71.112.7.212 because the whole schtick she's pulling is to goad people into getting angry, and then act like a wounded little bird, lost in the woods, having her wings clipped by mean wolves. The Afro article here is a good example, but also shows her limited view. "Afros look like they did in the 70's, period." What I think is best is to keep an eye on the User, as so many editors and admins are doing, and wait for her to make another wrong move, like removing content from articles, and then she'll be blocked. Otherwise, ignore her. You'll notice that she's only keeping the "wounded" comments to Talk pages. Once she starts making edits again, her time will be limited. I will no longer answer, but I'll certainly revert. --David Shankbone05:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
White afro picture?
Some months ago, a white friend of mine had an afro, which I photographed, and a picture of which I posted on my blog here. Would it be acceptable to upload this to the Commons (I'd give it a PD license) and add this to the page? My idea would be to add it to demonstrate the truth of the article's statement that even Caucasians occasionally have afros. Nyttend17:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
yup, upload it! its more of an afro than the photo we currently have. the editor below thinks only jews and blacks can have afros....weird. 71.112.6.3515:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
It's not that whites can't have afros, Nyttend, it's that the photos typically illustrate the article. The IP above is absolutely obsessed with me, so they aren't giving particularly good advice to you (every time they log on they do things that relate only to me...it's kind of flattering. But they also use the IP 71.112.7.212 with a lengthy history of contentiousness and being blocked - best to ignore them). Regardless, if you want to write a section about white afros, then try it out and maybe then the photo will work. But right now the article mainly relates to afros as a black hairstyle and Jewfro as it relates to Jews. If the person is Jewish, then it would work really well! --David Shankbone15:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I would say the afro is not a typical black hairstyle, it's just a hairstyle you can have if you have curly hair and blow comb it or just comb it out if your hair is really curly. Any person with curly hair can sport an afro. Black people happen to be a people with curly hair, so all black people can have an afro; Furthermore, the term afro is related to africa and to the african american history, in this sense an afro is typical 'black' in the american sense of the word. But hey, what the heck, who cares, everybody got the point I think, if your head looks like a big microphone you have an afro, whatever you ancestry, hair or skin colour. right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.193.88.21 (talk) 14:45, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Afro is simply a name for a type of hairsyle, just as a Roman nose is a type of nose. You don't have to be Roman to have a Roman nose, and you certainly don't have to be African to have an Afro. Paul B (talk) 14:49, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
nice photo!
i love the guy with an afro. it's much better than the photo with the woman; her hair is nappy but not really an afro. afros are more curved. but it is much better than the photo that used to be on this page. as it is higher quality and more representative of an afro, i've moved it to the top. please discuss here should you think this is illegitimate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.112.142.5 (talk) 16:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC).
Look everyone: it's User:71.112.142.5, who has vandalized the Afro page as User:71.112.7.212 and User: 71.112.6.35. This person has a long, contentious history - been blocked many, many times for trolling. I think I might bring this up for an ANI since they are editing as a sock puppet using several IPs, but making the same edits over and over. As always, ignore this user and their advice since they are a disruptive editor - repeat disruptive editor. --David Shankbone17:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
David, this page is about afros. Please focus on the topic at hand. Your photo is clearly inferior, so I've removed it this time. We could put it back in the article I suppose, but not at the top.
Hello, I was asked about the picture of an afro guy that I upload and used in this article. I don't know if this is the right thread because there is no reference to this picture, so sorry if I'm wrong. I'm the author of this picture, and I can swear you that the hair is real, and it's not a wig. It was taken from a long distance, and that's the reason of being flured and unfocused. There were a lot of people that ask him for a photo (it's unbelievable as you can see), but I prefer to take it from a long distance. The only thing I can argue about it is my word, because I did not tal to him or ask him for a COA :P I don't have a user in this Wikipedia, but you can find me in spanish Wikipedia at my user page84.77.45.11413:56, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
It simply doesn't look real. It looks like cotton and hangs down like the ears of a cocker spaniel. Can anyone produce a link to another photo of an afro that looks remotely similar? No, because it's a wig. --David Shankbone14:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
steve-o says it isn't a wig, and at wikipedia we "assume good faith", david. that means if he says its real, we believe him. and it doesnt look fake to me anyway
No, the 'assume good faith' rule does does not apply here, since that's about presuppositions concerning the intent of the editor, not about the validity of edits and uploads. Why has Spanish steve-o not used the image on Spanish Wikipedia? It's out of focus anyway. Paul B17:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
to say its not an afro is to call steve-o a liar. uncivil and assuming bad faith. let's assume instead that he's acting in good faith and this is a real afro. i for one believe him.
Bully for you. Sadly, with photos such as these we have no independent sources other thanm the person who uloaded them. We don't have to believe what people say about them. Paul B05:54, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Is an afro a hairstyle if thats how it grows naturally from out of a persons head? is straight hair or wavy hair a hairstyle? i dont think an afro is an hairstyle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.237.8.67 (talk) 22:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions about Afro. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Jordan Mann, a Lesser Known Rock Musician of the Late 19th Century
The section on history claims "Jordan Mann" is a lesser known rock musician of the late 19th century, who exhibited Circassian Beauties who had hairstyles similar to an Afro. I am far from convinced that this is actually relevant enough to be the sole entry in the "history" section, but for now I am removing the reference to Mr. Mann, who according to the referenced page does not seem to exist. The Circassian Beauties were most closely associated with P.T. Barnum. Thomas Roche (talk) 20:22, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Bifro
I propose starting a page entitled 'Bifro'. Bifro is a term that I have heard more and more often over the last few years and a quick Google search quickly reviews it's meaning.
I'm not too sure how Wikipedia views Urban Dictionary in terms of reliability though. What does everyone think? Or perhaps a section should be devoted to it in the 'Afro' article, with a link from the Jewfro article. It should also be noted that it would probably be more accurate to say that some of those listed as having a Jewfro actually have a bifro - i.e. Seth Rogan.
