|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Aircrew article.|
|WikiProject Aviation / Aerospace biography||(Rated List-class)|
Considering that article was started on 18 November 2004 it needs a huge amount of work. Not only does it have no sources, but it is badly written, sounds like a personal essay and presents opinions that do not conform to any known references. For instance in the Canadian military pilots, navigators and flight engineers are classified as "aircrew" (i.e. essential to the operation of the aircraft) but flight attendants are "flight crew". In Canadian civil aviation there is no such thing as "aircrew" (ref CARs definitions and Aeronautics Act definitions). I have no idea if any country defines anyone as "aircrew" and this article doesn't clear that up. There is also the problem that the article title "aircrew member" is poor grammar and should be simply "aircrew". Incidentally Aircrew redirects to Aircrew member.
- Concur. We might also want to move it to Aircrew as the mostly likely search term. - BillCJ (talk) 17:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
It looks like that is everyone who has worked on this article since April. Let's give it a bit of time for anyone else to chime in and then, if there are no objections, proceed on this consensus. - Ahunt (talk) 18:56, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- I have made the changes discussed and agreed upon above. Because both pages (aircrew and aircrew member) already existed I have copied the talk page contents here for continuity. If anyone thinks that isn't the best way to do it, please feel free to change it!
- Please do add more aircrew trade links to the article, if you can think of any. - Ahunt (talk) 12:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
- That seems to be somewhat covered as Rescue swimmer, etc. - Ahunt (talk) 16:48, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
I would like to discuss the role of second officer as noted in the Aircrew section. Second officers in Australia are very junior and while in that third (or fourth ) have no authority to manipulate thrust levers. Additionally they are not engineers they are simply relief pilots who occupy a control seat when the PIC or FO leave for a rest. They are trained pilots but no authorised to occupy a control seat for takeoff or landing.
I would think a more accurate description would be similar to: Second officer's are relief pilots for the operating crew and also are tasked by the PIC for some administrative tasks during, before and after flight.
- Changing existing information that is cited to references requires citing a new source. - Ahunt (talk) 00:58, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I can only supply some airline websites. http://jobsatcathaypacific.com/cadetpilots/being-a-second-officer.php, https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot-Life-Story-Blog/42/B727+Second+Officer, QANTAS airlines in Australia shows that 2nd officers are pilots only: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/careers-pilot-qfdirect/global/en. The other Australian airline that uses second officers is Virgin and the position is a pilot position: https://www.flightdeckconsulting.com/jobs/virgin-australia-second-officer/. Older aircraft before the 80's needed a flight engineer and sometimes this role was called a second officer. In all Australian airlines these aircraft no longer exist and the second officer role is a pilot with limited authority. I note that Cathay and Air New Zealand also have removed flight engineers. My experience is only with QANTAS. B744, A380 and A330 have second officers for long haul flights requiring crew rest. The role is to support the other two, monitor and replace crew during rest periods. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Craigstevensit (talk • contribs) 01:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for finding those! https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot-Life-Story-Blog/42/B727+Second+Officer is WP:SPS so not usable, http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/careers-pilot-qfdirect/global/en#qantas-direct-entry-minimum-criteria and https://www.flightdeckconsulting.com/jobs/virgin-australia-second-officer/ are reliable sources, but neither describes the job performed, so not very useful. http://jobsatcathaypacific.com/cadetpilots/being-a-second-officer.php is a relaible source and does describe the job, so let me use that to add some text to the article and you can see what you think. - Ahunt (talk) 17:07, 7 July 2015 (UTC)