Talk:Australian Idol discography

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Revamp of page[edit]

I have done a revamp of "List of music releases from Australian Idol contestants".

1. It was very hard to navigate through to add new releases, so I have divided the years more clearly.

2. I have removed some releases which are only tenuously connected to Idol. While there have been some notable people who did not make it into the final 12 in any given year, to add every release from anyone who managed to get through some stage of Idol is stretching the perameters. Each year thousands auditioned. So imagine how long the list could become if every time one of them decided to release a cd independantly it was added to this page.

  • The Robertson Brothers featuring Anton Aktila. 2 releases by Manifest (Ben and Jess Manusama). Anton and Ben made it into the top 40 of the 2003 series, but really are their releases Idol associated?? I would think to at least make it into the final 12, or perhaps become notable because of Idol without getting to that stage. For example Joel Turner and Axle Whitehead who were very much a part of the first Idol series, even though neither made it into the Final 12. Their inclusion is justified.
  • Also to include releases before contestants even auditioned for the show is also probably not warranted. "2004 Lydia Denker "One Perfect Day"". She was apparently a contestant in 2006, although her Wikipedia page says nothing about it. There was one release from 2002, a year before the show even started in Australia. 2002 Rockmelons and Roxane LeBrasse, "I Ain't Playin'". I have left in a song she released after her appearance on the show in 2005, but removed this one.
  • And I don't know whether Paul Mac would like to be listed as an Idol contestant even if he gave a singing spot on one of his videos to Ngaiire.

4. I have changed the charting from weeks in top 100 to weeks in Top 50, and used Australian-charts.com to put in the amended times. Whoever started this page had access to the ARIA top 100, but it is hard to find except via the archives at NSW Library. They are not archived there every week, and are much less user friendly than Australian-Charts. There was a mixture of Top 50 entries mixed with Top 100 entries. Like comparing apples with oranges. Now all releases have their peak in Top 100 (which is usually mentioned in ARIA chart facts for new entries inside the Top 100), and weeks in Top 50(which is always easily accessable on Australian-Charts.com).

3. I have also included an overall accreditation table, added information about the "ARIA decade Top 100 albums and singles" report where a number of Idol releases performed very well, added more entries into the overseas charting section and added references.

Natbelle (talk) 06:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Another revamp[edit]

I have continued on from where Natbelle left off.

For some reason she returned the weeks in top 100, but I think her original reasons for changing it to top 50 were valid. Getting cited references from the Pandora Archives is a long and tedious process, and doing it for so many releases would be a huge task, the likely reason there are no individual references to the top 100 chart runs on the page. Australian Charts have the the full top 50 chart runs for every release going back years. Not only the peak, but also where a release was in the chart on any particular week, providing an excellent citation. So I have changed it to "weeks in top 10" and "weeks in top 50", and just left the chart peaks for releases which did not make it into the top 50. Another reason I have changed it is because all but a few releases which debuted outside the top 50 spent no more than a few weeks in the chart, and in most cases even releases which spent a long time in the top 50 only spent a few more weeks in the 51-100 range. I think "weeks in top ten" and "weeks in top 50" are a far better indication of a release's success than "weeks in top 50" and "weeks in top 100".

Unfortunately the consequences of fully referencing this article has meant it has jumped in size dramatically. Going from 15 to over 200 references tends to do that. The two infoboxes and one new section I have added do not contribute much to the added size. I have checked. It is those references that have done it.

The main reason I added the Chart achievement section is that I am tired of media and some in the general public keeping up the myth that all Idol certifications are fake. Yes, there are undoubedly a few Idol releases that were over certified, but that happens with non Idol acts as well. But generally, given the Idol positions on the End of Year ARIA Charts and their 24 highest selling ARIA Award nominations, most Idol releases were correctly or close to correctily certified. The simple fact is that the ARIA Charts and the Highest Selling ARIA nominations are calculated on retail sales, not on distributed units as certifications are. Some Idol releases have actually been documented to have sold well over their certification level, so it all evens out in the end. And the really big sellers, those 4 times platinum singles and 4 to 6 times platinum albums were proven to have correct when they landed exactly where they should have on the End of Decade Charts, again a chart which goes on retail, not distributed units. The only surprise on that chart was that Guy Sebastian's "Angels Brought Me Here" finished ahead of Anthony Callea's "The Prayer". Which goes to show the media should have asked ARIA who sold more, instead of believing the Callea publicity train all those years. When ARIA finally spoke they said it was Sebastian who had the highest seller. And that of course meant it was not just the highest selling single of the decade, but also the highest selling single by an Australian artist ever. As up until the three big Idol singles were released, no other Australian artist single had reached higher than triple platinum, either in certification or actual sales. Of course that is a moot point now, as Gotye chewed up and spat out those Idol 4 times platinum songs in 2011 with his 7 times platinum certified single "Somebody I Used to Know". He now holds the record for highest selling song by an Australian artist ever. But the three Idol songs still come in second, third and fourth, and I would say that Sebastian's song "Who's That Girl" is the fifth highest selling Australian song ever. Of course given the amazing single sales these days, these Idol songs may fall down the list, but for now Australian Idol has four of the five highest selling songs ever released by Australian artists.

In the section on Chart achievements I have added ARIA Award information, as I think the ARIA Awards are very much a part of Australian music releases, especially as they not only have peer judged, but also highest selling categories. As a full list of the 54 ARIA Award nominations would have added way too much to an already long article, I have created a separate page for this and if that article is approved I will add a link.

Anyway, whatever the criticisms and opinions about Australian Idol by the elitist music buffs of Australia are, there is no doubt Australian Idol made a big impact, and still does even today. Hardly a week goes by that there is not at least one Idol song in the ARIA Singles Chart, and Idols still get nominated for ARIA Awards and appear on the ARIA End of Year Charts every year. And many Idol contestants who don't appear on the music charts any more have made careers for themselves in musical theatre and television. So the effects of the show live on despite its demise.

I have removed the charting of "Angels Brought Me Here" in the Philippes, Malaysia and Indonesia from the overseas charting section. While I have no doubt it is correct, as it was released there and is in his bio that the song went number one in four Asian countries. It was reported in the media at the time too, but there are just no online charting records to prove this. I have instead made a note in this section.


I guess I am probably talking to myself here, as the Wikipedia page does not get many views, but that brings me to my last point. I believe one of the reasons for this is the name of the article. When you search Australian Idol on Wikipedia this article comes way down the lists. The other reason I would like to change the name is that the article itself is way more than a list. It is a series of lists with other information as well. I have checked the iformation on List articles and although it is suggested that these articles should start with "List" it also states it is not compulsory, as sometimes an article title without "List" is more suitable. Many list articles do not start with "List", including discographies. I would like to change the name to either simply "Australian Idol Music Releases" or "Australian Idol contestants' Discography" as the American Idol one is called. I prefer the first option however. I won't change it without concensus of some other Wikipedia editors though.

Joe59 (talk) 02:41, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Joe59

I dont have a problem with the change of the name of the article. This is a very comprehensive wiki article on Australian Idol alumni and the music that they have released in their careers after the show and beyond. It seems to me to be a good idea to change the name to a name that is more searchable for people who have an interest in historical information on Australian Idol and the music and artists that have come from the tv show. --Diane (talk) 07:34, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


I think that "Australian Idol Discography" would be a good name for this article. I have noticed other articles like say x factor discography for example have this format of heading for their contestant's discography articles.

--ArtemisChook (talk) 20:31, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

/

I think the new changes are great Joe. Yes I did change it to weeks in top 50 a while back, because some releases had weeks in Top 50 and some had weeks in Top 100, which was misleading. I then changed it back again as I went to Pandora to find out how long the ones with only Top 50 weeks spent in the top 100. Even only searching for those ones took ages, so I never put references in for them, as the others didn't have them and it would have taken forever to find references for every release on the page. As you said, the ARIA archives at Pandora are a pain to search. I think Top 10 and Top 50 is a great idea, as it does indeed give a better indication of the charting success of a release. Albums sell very little outside of the top 50, and even though single sales are greater outside of the Top 50, they still don't add up to much if you only spend a week or two there, as most did.
A few releases may be dudded using Top 10 and Top 50 instead of Top 100, for example Guy Sebastian's Who's That Girl which spent 19 weeks in the Top 50, but is coming up to its 18th week in the 51 to 100 range. And Shannon Noll's Switch Me On which only spent four weeks in the Top 50, but a further eleven weeks between 51 and 100, the reason it is gold certified. But both Guy and Shannon have so many charting releases, sacrificing a few months in the Top 100 will make no difference to them. It is a small price to pay to have all the charting referenced, and Australian Charts is a fantastic referencing site.
As far as the name goes, I think ArtemisChook is right. "Australian Idol discograpy" is a good choice. Simple and to the point.
Natbelle (talk) 00:37, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback everybody. I have moved the article to its new name.

Joe59 (talk) 04:09, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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