Talk:Battle of Krasnoi

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Archive: September 2006 – March 2008

Participation of the V Corps[edit]

According to this source (Jadwiga Nadzieja (1988). Od Jakobina do księcia namiestnika. Wydawnictwo "Śląsk". ISBN 978-83-216-0682-8., p.214-215), the V Corps under Józef Zajączek arrived in Krasnoi on the evening of 14 November, left on the following day (as our article states) but according to Nadzieja then moved to Lada, Dubrowna, and around 16 or 17 (she is not clear) returned to Krasnoi and took part in the battle. This should be clarified. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 21:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)


Your input is welcome, but I disagree with part of your reasoning. Consider the following points.
The statement that, "On November 14, the corps of Józef Zajączek (V Corps) and Junot, at the helm of the retreating French army, passed through Krasny and continued marching west to Orsha," doesn't imply that the V Corps didn't take part in the battle. Rather, the statement describes what happened on November 14th, during the battle's prelude. That the V Corps (or, more likely elements of the V Corps) were recalled on November 16th or 17th doesn't change the fact that, initially, this unit passed through Krasnoi and continued retreating to the west. Thus, there is nothing misleading about the statement.
On the other hand, further down in the article where the events of November 16th are 17th are described, I could add additional information elaborating that the V Corps (or parts of it) were recalled to Krasnoi. I'll have to research this issue.
Incidentally, I know for a fact that no elements of the V Corps partook in the three chief actions of November 16th and 17th, which involved the French IV Corps, I Corps, and Imperial Guard. My guess is that part of the V Corps was recalled by Napoleon on November 17th for the purpose of guarding the western road against the pending advance of Tormasov, who was readying to cut-off Napoleon's line-of-retreat. Whatever the case, none of the sources I used addressed this aspect of the V Corps involvement in the battle.

Kenmore (talk) 01:32, 30 December 2013 (UTC)


Kenmore (talk) 00:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)Kenmore, December 5th, 2013
@User:Kenmore: I don't have access to Nadzieja. My concern is about the following unreferenced sentence "On November 14, the corps of Józef Zajączek (V Corps) and Junot, at the helm of the retreating French army, passed through Krasny and continued marching west to Orsha." we have in the article. As I described above, this is misleading, as according to Nadzieja, Z. and his V Corps returned to Krasnoi shortly afterward and took part in the fighting, whereas our article suggests they didn't take part in the battle. Unless sources to the contrary can be show, we should update the article to include V Corps and Z. as the battle participants. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:04, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Please read my comment above regarding the V Corps' march through Krasnoi on March 14th. Also, I just checked Riehn again today, and sure enough, he says nothing about Zajaczek. The fact of the matter is that the V Corps was always regarded as Poniatowski's corps; Zajaczek was just temporarily replacing Poniatowski at the time of this battle. Every account I've read so far (and I list my sources in this article) refers to the V Corps as that of Poniatowski. If anything, Zajaczek's involvement could be added to the article as a footnote, but nothing more than that, really.
Another concern I have about your feedback is that you seem to advocate that each and every sentence needs to be footnoted. As a matter of fact, the article is already heavily footnoted. It would be helpful if you could post your Wikipedia footnoting guidelines here, and give a few more examples of statements that you believe are in error, or which need to be footnoted. As for everyone else, if anyone's interested in collaborating with me on this project, just send me an email. Kenmore (talk) 09:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

B-class review[edit]

I am failing this, there are several unferenced paragraphs. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 21:52, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I think the article should retain its B-class rating. Nonetheless, I'll play ball with you because you are a university professor who teaches Wikipedia courses. I'd like to upgrade the article, and getting some sort of "clean up" list would be helpful.
I'm looking for MILHIST volunteers to collaborate with me on this project. If anyone's interested, send me a message. Thanks.Kenmore (talk) 01:38, 30 December 2013 (UTC)