Talk:Begin the Beguine

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Untitled

The inclusion of complete lyrics (as opposed to a small extract) of a copyrighted song is a form of copyright infringement. In this case the copyright is owned by the Cole Porter estate or its assignees. Unless there are objections, I propose to remove the lyrics from this article.Dermot 09:20, 15 July 2006 (UTC)Dermot[reply]

Sorry, Dermot, I beat you to it before I even read the talk page! User:Angr 15:01, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Begin the Beguine...major or minor song?

Non-musicians: Abstain. I am a pro music in general and jazz in particular composer/arranger/pianist/guitarist from Paraguay. It struck me that when I saw the film "De-Lovely" Sheryl Crow sang an arrangement of "Begin the Beguine" in the minor mode!!!. I did not like Edelmnan's arrangements nor orchestrations all throughout. Most of the pieces did not any good to great Porter songs but rather portrayed their "aging" quality. If the minor thing in "Begin..." was the arranger's idea I believe it was a rather doubtful one. However, if the original copywrite was in minor (I'm not sure), well, OK. The idea of including nowadays singers singing Porter's tunes is also doubtful. Even when Porter was not a jazz musician, his music has been fostered by jazzists all around the world, and most of their songs are actually best remembered as jazz singers renderings. Therefore, I don't buy Robbie Williams (??????) and Costello's (e.g) rendering of their songs. The film is boring and does not leave Porter at a top place, but rather shows his flows. The music is certainly not the best, at a film portraying one of the greatest song writers of the 20th Century. 200.108.137.234 17:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC) Carlos Schvartzman[reply]

This page is not for a review of the musical movie written about Cole Porter. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. As far as abstaining for non-musicians, your credentials don't dictate who responds to you. As for your points, professionals write and remix music all the time. It's not going to sound the same as it was for Cole Porter, as they will always be interpretations of his music. As for who is singing his songs in the movie, consider that the songs would have originally been sung by aspiring or famous singers/actors of the day, so using known singers for the movie audience makes sense to me.--216.16.239.66 18:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)WPaulB[reply]

The answer to Mr. Schvartzman's question is that the song was written in a major key, and most published arrangements (including the famous versions performed by Artie Shaw or the three different arrangements danced to by Fred Astaire and Eleanor Powell in Broadway Melody of 1940) are in major keys. However, it's worth noting that Porter was very fond of including (relative) minor chords in his melodies, a technique he adapted from traditional Arabic melodies he heard in North Africa. He even wrote a song with lyrics specifically mentioning the technique: "Ev'ry Time We Say Goodbye", also written in a major key but which makes a point of introducing minor chords on the words "from major to minor" . "Night and Day" is another famous major key Porter song which exploits this technique. Such tonal ambiguity is a trademark of Porter's. I agree that the arrangement in De-Lovely is very strange, unsatisfactory and unhistorical. D7240 (talk) 20:16, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is for the person who said "This page is not for a review of the musical movie written about Cole Porter. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia" Guess what? It's a discussion page. He can talk about what he wants. It's not like he wrote what he did in the main article. I believe he wanted to DISCUSS this being a major or minor song. So don't tell someone what they can and cannot discuss on a discussion page.--72.154.223.249 (talk) 02:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the user of the IP 72.154.223.249. Paul' that is a very arrogent and condicending attitude of yours to exlude non-musically enclined people this is an open area of discussion. Actually' this is a page for a community orientated discussion on this and other subjects. So you are in the wrong to to say "it is otherwise". Please be respectful to other users when discussing your facts / opnionions / or suggestions. "Non musicians obstain"? Personally Paul I would read as a very rude statement from you and it does not help with your own credibility to backing your statements. In the millenia to come many people ARE going to dicusss their thoughts and opinions in regards to any discussion of any peace of music. As an amature musician of 12 years, I find that it is not right to exlude people because they are not "musicians" or musically inclined. However it is very true that many compositions will be arranged no matter the genre, style or background of the arranger, musician, or so on, key no matter the composer/arranger etc for time to come yet the main core of the composition will always remain. by GraemeG, —Preceding [[Wikipedia: ]] comment added by 24.85.224.158 (talk) 21:47, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The reference to "this page" was obviously to the main Wiki entry page.75.72.46.100 (talk) 03:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well I like the minor version as done in De-Lovely. Thats not to knock the original, its great, but there is somthing about the lyrics that really works in the Minor key, a real sense of loss and regret. Cheers Brian:::: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.177.135.159 (talk) 05:11, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV issues

The article as it stood was rather POV, so I've toned all of that way down. Some citations need to be added to back up a few of the facts, but that's outside my expertise. Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 17:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1943 Deanna Durbin version

Probably the most accomplished renditions of Begin the Beguine was delivered by that great female singer, Deanna Durbin, in film. Quite disappointed that this is not reflected in the original Wikipedia article. Someone appears to have recently posted that version on You Tube. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.105.4.211 (talk) 02:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Other versions

A lot of other versions of the song can be found by typing the song title under www.jazz-on-line.com/pageinterrogation.php Two other versions (both from the 40s) that should probably be mentioned are those of Art Tatum and Eddie Heywood. The Heywood arrangement in particular was very popular in its time, and Cole Porter is supposed to have said to Heywood that he (Porter) wished he had arranged it that way himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.125.60.123 (talk) 09:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Volver a empezar - Garci

The title of the movie "Volver a Empezar" translates as "Starting Over Again" not in any way as "Begin the Beguine" and that reference should be deleted or explained. GS3 (talk) 17:18, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As is often done with foreign language films, the title is not a translation. That's the English title as listed (twice) by the IMDb.

No further evidence of validity is required, unless there is a suspicion that a hoax has been perpetrated on the IMDb.

Varlaam (talk) 17:39, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For example, the French film Gazon maudit (Damn Lawn) became French Twist in English. English titles are often not faithfully translated into other languages either.

Varlaam (talk)

I rememember my mother (who was much in touch with RAF and RCAF officers) telling us that at some time during WW2 pilots would hum or whistle "Begin the Beguine" when they left their attack formations to engage in dogfights over Europe. HAs anybody heard likewise? Or is this just part of eternal RAF myth-building :-) L'Etranger (talk) 13:16, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reverting long-standing Anon unsourced edit

While working on a jazz trumpet arrangement of this song, and verifying composer & copyright date, I noticed a "citation needed" flag on a quote purportedly attributed to Porter, but that was way-too similar to the adjacent book quotation by musicologist Alec Wilder.

Tracking back the Edit History timeline, I found that the unsourced Porter "quote" was added by a one-shot Anonymous IP editor in 2009 (90.241.200.182 @ 18:12 UTC, 12 February 2009), who couldn't even spell "remember" in the quotation correctly. The subsequent editor should have just reverted the edit, rather than correct the poorly spelled, unattributed "quote".

The words attributed to Cole Porter by this Anon user are just too close to the actual words by author Wilder; and with no other sources being found over the past 4 years, I'm calling the Anon edit "B.S." and deleting it from the article permanently. This oversight has attained its own "web life" long enough, and needs to be corrected now before it grows worse. — DennisDallas (talk) 14:28, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Beguine as feminine for Beke

I have heard that the word beguine comes as the feminine for Béké RichardBond (talk) 04:02, 25 February 2018 (UTC) RichardBond (talk) 04:02, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Expand WWII importance into new section

"Begin the Beguine" became such a classic during World War II that Max Beckmann adopted the title for a painting in 1946 (which the University of Michigan Museum of Art purchased in 1948)

There's a lot to say about its use during WWII, and this needs expansion. The LOC goes into some detail, but a lot can be said here. Viriditas (talk) 18:02, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]