Talk:Beta-decay stable isobars

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I stopped transforming the list of beta-stable nuclides because I first like to hear other people oppinion to this kind of presentation and I'm not quite lucky with my form. Else I type in this table and then I must layout it completely different, because others have better ideas.

At the moment, it is unclear to people who do not know the subject, what this is about! It would very much help if you put explanation in along with the table you are presenting. Quantpole (talk) 22:58, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your helpful want-to-be hand. :) I wrote just a very bad introduction, but hopefully give the most important informations. Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Achim1999 (talkcontribs) 11:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

For current bad reasons: I just was forced two times bei Abce2 and previous by L... (see history of the article-page) to restore the page main contens because they simple deleted most of information I added. If such behaviour stays I will no longer build up this page! Or you must give me exclusive write-acces to prevent such vandalism. Regards! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Achim1999 (talkcontribs) 14:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Known Line of beta-stability finally converted completely into list of nuclides. :) Better to replace (@) in this list resp. table by colored nuclide-symbols to get this table a bit narrower? Achim1999 (talk) 14:07, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Decays contrary to table in this article?[edit]

Decaying nuclide You list as stable You list as unstable
17 Chlorine-36 2% to Sulfur-36 98% to Argon-36
19 Potassium-40 11.2% to Argon-40 89% to Calcium-40
47 Silver-108 0% to Palladium-108 100% to Cadmium-108
61 Promethium-146 37% to Samarium-146 63% to Neodymium-146

--JWB (talk) 02:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

What is your problem respectively question? Regards, Achim1999 (talk) 11:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

In these 4 rows, what you have marked as the most beta-stable isobar of that mass, is different from what you would expect based on the direction of beta decay of adjacent isobars. --JWB (talk) 19:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

These 4 rows are yours! They are not from the article (-- I wonder about the use of your first column in this relation). I suggest you first read CAREFULLY what is stated in the article. :) E.g.: It is stated that for A=36 there are 2 beta-stable nuclides, namely 36S and 36Ar. Moreover the last is in italic because it may transform with double-beta decay or double e-capture into sulfur-36. BTW: Your wording "most beta-stable" seems to be your invention. :) Regards, Achim1999 (talk) 21:35, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Is "Beta-decay stable" from a source? I see 461 Google hits but they appear to be Wikipedia mirrors. If the term is your own, see WP:Neologism.

I can think of several possible meanings for "beta-decay stable":

1) Not observed to beta decay

2) Not predicted to beta decay by specific theory

3) Lowest-mass isobar for this mass number (this is what you seem to be using)

4) Direction of beta decays of other isobars of this mass number all point towards this isobar, i.e. lower-Z isobars beta-minus decay and higher-Z isobars beta-plus decay or electron capture. (this is what I used in my chart cited above)

If you are going to stick to only your definition, it would be clearer to call it something like List of lightest isobars by mass number.

If you are going to stick to a term like "beta-decay stable", you should discuss the possible meanings of the term, since people may assume various ones.

Also, the fact that 3) and 4) are opposite for the 4 cases above is interesting and would be a good point to discuss in this or another Wikipedia article. I do not have an explanation for this, do you?

--JWB (talk) 22:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

"beta-decay stable" seems to be a short-hand for "stable against beta-decay", i.e. unable to decay by (simple) beta(+/-) -decay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:21, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Number "136"[edit]

The number "136" has only 2 beta-decay-stable nuclides---The nuclide "Xn-136" is unstable! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:49, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

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The Russian prediction (linked) for the continuation of the line of beta stability to the superheavy region[edit]

All beta-decay stable isobars with A ≤ 312 sorted by mass number
Odd A Even A Odd A Even A Odd A Even A Odd A Even A
1H 2H 3He 4He 5He (n) 6Li 7Li 8Be (α)
9Be 10B 11B 12C 13C 14N 15N 16O
17O 18O 19F 20Ne 21Ne 22Ne 23Na 24Mg
25Mg 26Mg 27Al 28Si 29Si 30Si 31P 32S
33S 34S 35Cl 36S ← 36Ar 37Cl 38Ar 39K 40Ar ← 40Ca
41K 42Ca 43Ca 44Ca 45Sc 46Ca → 46Ti 47Ti 48Ca → 48Ti
49Ti 50Ti ← 50Cr 51V 52Cr 53Cr 54Cr ← 54Fe 55Mn 56Fe
57Fe 58Fe ← 58Ni 59Co 60Ni 61Ni 62Ni 63Cu 64Ni ← 64Zn
65Cu 66Zn 67Zn 68Zn 69Ga 70Zn → 70Ge 71Ga 72Ge
73Ge 74Ge ← 74Se 75As 76Ge → 76Se 77Se 78Se ← 78Kr 79Br 80Se → 80Kr
81Br 82Se → 82Kr 83Kr 84Kr ← 84Sr 85Rb 86Kr → 86Sr 87Sr 88Sr
89Y 90Zr 91Zr 92Zr ← 92Mo 93Nb 94Zr → 94Mo 95Mo 96Zr → 96Mo ← 96Ru
97Mo 98Mo → 98Ru 99Ru 100Mo → 100Ru 101Ru 102Ru ← 102Pd 103Rh 104Ru → 104Pd
105Pd 106Pd ← 106Cd 107Ag 108Pd ← 108Cd 109Ag 110Pd → 110Cd 111Cd 112Cd ← 112Sn
113In 114Cd → 114Sn 115Sn 116Cd → 116Sn 117Sn 118Sn 119Sn 120Sn ← 120Te
121Sb 122Sn → 122Te 123Sb 124Sn → 124Te ← 124Xe 125Te 126Te ← 126Xe 127I 128Te → 128Xe
129Xe 130Te → 130Xe ← 130Ba 131Xe 132Xe ← 132Ba 133Cs 134Xe → 134Ba 135Ba 136Xe → 136Ba ← 136Ce
137Ba 138Ba ← 138Ce 139La 140Ce 141Pr 142Ce → 142Nd 143Nd 144Nd (α) ← 144Sm
145Nd 146Nd → 146Sm (α) 147Sm (α) 148Nd → 148Sm (α) ← 148Gd (α) 149Sm 150Nd → 150Sm ← 150Gd (α) 151Eu (α) 152Sm ← 152Gd
153Eu 154Sm → 154Gd ← 154Dy (α) 155Gd 156Gd ← 156Dy 157Gd 158Gd ← 158Dy 159Tb 160Gd → 160Dy
161Dy 162Dy ← 162Er 163Dy 164Dy ← 164Er 165Ho 166Er 167Er 168Er ← 168Yb
169Tm 170Er → 170Yb 171Yb 172Yb 173Yb 174Yb ← 174Hf 175Lu 176Yb → 176Hf
177Hf 178Hf 179Hf 180Hf ← 180W (α) 181Ta 182W 183W 184W ← 184Os (α)
185Re 186W → 186Os (α) 187Os 188Os 189Os 190Os ← 190Pt (α) 191Ir 192Os → 192Pt
193Ir 194Pt 195Pt 196Pt ← 196Hg 197Au 198Pt → 198Hg 199Hg 200Hg
201Hg 202Hg 203Tl 204Hg → 204Pb 205Tl 206Pb 207Pb 208Pb
209Bi (α) 210Po (α) 211Po (α) 212Po (α) ← 212Rn (α) 213Po (α) 214Po (α) ← 214Rn (α) 215At (α) 216Po (α) → 216Rn (α)
217Rn (α) 218Rn (α) ← 218Ra (α) 219Fr (α) 220Rn (α) → 220Ra (α) 221Ra (α) 222Ra (α) 223Ra (α) 224Ra (α) ← 224Th (α)
225Ac (α) 226Ra (α) → 226Th (α) 227Th (α) 228Th (α) 229Th (α) 230Th (α) ← 230U (α) 231Pa (α) 232Th (α) → 232U (α)
233U (α) 234U (α) 235U (α) 236U (α) ← 236Pu (α) 237Np (α) 238U (α) → 238Pu (α) 239Pu (α) 240Pu (α)
241Am (α) 242Pu (α) ← 242Cm (α) 243Am (α) 244Pu (α) → 244Cm (α) 245Cm (α) 246Cm (α) 247Bk (α) 248Cm (α) → 248Cf (α)
249Cf (α) 250Cf (α) 251Cf (α) 252Cf (α) ← 252Fm (α) 253Es (α) 254Cf (SF) → 254Fm (α) 255Fm (α) 256Fm (SF)
257Fm (α) 258Fm (SF) ← 258No (SF) 259Md (SF) 260Fm (SF) → 260No (SF) 261No (α, SF) 262No (SF) 263No (α, SF) 264No (SF) ← 264Rf (α, SF)
265Lr (α) 266No (SF) → 266Rf (SF) 267Rf (SF) 268Rf (α) 269Db (α) 270Rf (SF) ← 270Sg (α) 271Db (α, SF) 272Rf (SF) → 272Sg (α, SF)
273Sg (SF) 274Sg (SF) 275Sg (SF) 276Sg (SF) ← 276Hs (SF) 277Bh (SF) 278Hs (SF) 279Hs (SF) 280Hs (SF) ← 280Ds (SF)
281Mt (SF) 282Hs (SF) → 282Ds (SF) 283Mt (SF) 284Ds (SF) 285Ds (SF) 286Ds (SF) ← 286Cn (SF) 287Ds (SF) 288Ds (SF) → 288Cn (α, SF)
289Rg (SF) 290Cn (SF) 291Cn (SF) 292Cn (SF) ← 292Fl (α) 293Cn (α, SF) 294Cn (SF) → 294Fl (α) 295Fl (α) 296Fl (α)
297Fl (α) 298Fl (α) ← 298Lv (α) 299Mc (α) 300Fl (α, SF) → 300Lv (α) 301Lv (α) 302Lv (α) 303Lv (α, SF) 304Lv (SF) ← 304Og (α)
305Ts (SF) 306Lv (SF) → 306Og (SF) 307Og (SF) 308Og (SF) 309Og (SF) 310Og (SF) ← 310120 (SF) ? 311119 (SF) ? 312Og (SF) → 312120 (SF) ?

I would prefer something more recent, though. (Fairly obviously, all these nuclei must undergo α decay or spontaneous fission. Decay modes are from [1], correcting the original old Russian source if necessary. Unfortunately, that chart of predictions stops at N = 189.) Double sharp (talk) 09:17, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

It might be salutary to remark that despite the great difficulties of getting enough neutrons into superheavy nuclides via fusion-evaporation reactions, we have somehow managed to heroically follow the line of beta stability until Ds, element 110. (We know of 262No, 266Lr, 270Rf, 270Db, 271Sg, 278Bh, 277Hs, 282Mt, and 280Ds.) Double sharp (talk) 13:58, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Oh, I found a chart of decay modes going beyond N = 189; updated. We may also have found 286Cn! Double sharp (talk) 14:11, 27 May 2017 (UTC)