Talk:Bruce Edwards Ivins

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no autopsy = murder[edit]

how unusual is it for an autopsy to not be performed in questionable deaths, where the death is not a murder or suicide? The fact that the government, as opposed to merely an element of it, was possibly behind a terror campaign, gives great weight to this unanswered question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.14.66 (talk) 18:59, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

An autopsy wouldn't be needed if he had findings of liver and kidney failure with toxic levels of acetaminophen in his blood because the diagnosis is present before his death. This is also not the place to infer conspiracy theories. Get a reliable source and it can be included in the article.--MartinezMD (talk) 04:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
how does the presence of that toxicity prove that the death was a suicide? And will you please stop accusing other wikipedians of engaging in "conspiracy theories" simply because they don't uncritically accept the claims of the FBI? That's simply bad manners.--BenJonson (talk) 03:17, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

You must not understand properly what an autopsy is for, how serious and necessary it is to perform them, why we do them, and how one reaches or is able to reach a final conclusion on wether a liver failure and or kidney failure has arrived swiftly. Such acute diseases are very necessary to determine. And only in cases of political controversy it seems have they so thoroughly and continually been avoided. It's classic almost to the point that it is laughable. Re, Marilyn Monroe, Zachary Taylor, Louis T. McFadden, and too many others to even bother to mention. Nunamiut (talk) 17:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Right. The failure to perform an autopsy is either 1) yet another example, as if we needed one, of the complete incompetence of the FBI or 2) a hint of foul play. Perhaps MartinizMD can prove which it was. --BenJonson (talk) 03:17, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
First, the toxicology analysis of his blood samples were consistent with overdosing of APAP (acetaminophen/diphenhydramine. He had total liver failure and kidney failure, which is consistent with overdosage of APAP. The bottles were likely found nearby. The CORONER decides to autopsy or not, not the FBI, police or Jehovah witnesses. His suicide was a local law enforcement issue, not an FBI involved investigation. Indeed, his suicide would be outside of the jurisdiction of the FBI, even IF he was being investigated for the anthrax letters.Wzrd1 (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

It's a cover up[edit]

Consider just a small amount of the clear evidence of a cover up:

No autopsy was performed on Bruce Ivans

No one has been arrested for the anthrax attacks.

No one has been found guilty of the attacks.

The sole alleged perpetrator of the attacks is dead. The FBI insists on a "lone gunman" type theory, thereby absolving possible defendants of liability.

Crimes can easily be covered up with "lone radical" theories. The targets of the anthrax were not natural enemies of any Jihadist, rather they were people who drew the ire of powerful people within the US.

The timing of Bruce Ivans Death and the Timing of the FBI investigation is highly suspicious. The FBI did not file charges until about 7 years after the event which gave rise to the criminal charges.

Patrick Leahey implied FBI officials were covering up the case.

Rumsfeld and other well connected individuals did it. He is a satanist. The Bushes are satanists as well. They did it to retaliate against news agencies that published negative information about them, and to intimidate politicians, and for pure sadism. Satanists run the Pentagon and other major national institutions. If they perpetrated 9/11, why certainly a few anthrax letters are small potatoes by comparison.

Tyrants hate bad publicity.

You confuse incompetence with malfeasance. A common error for those who are devout conspiracy theory followers.Wzrd1 (talk) 19:56, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

911 Iraq motive[edit]

The case is made by Graeme MacQueen mp3 here. The context of the previous week's events will, of course, bring accusations of "conspiracy theories", but it is a conspiracy per se, hence speculation -- based on contextual facts (i.e. "makes sense") -- is the only way forward. Not outingt the obvious lies of biased involved parties (the US military & state apparatus) is IMHO inexcusable. 203.184.41.52 (talk) 10:53, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Except for the fact that Iraq did not have weaponized anthrax. Remember the WMD debacle? Weaponized anthrax is considered by all to be a WMD. Iraq's process, from research only, was also substantially different. So, either the administration DID find WMD's in Iraq and chose to instead embarrass the nation by denying them AND cover up an Iraqi WMD attack upon the US, which would be a clear cut act of war or the conspiracy theory is wrong. The "makes sense" part then yields to Occam's razor, the conspiracy theory would have to be that the US choose to loose standing and face international criticism over invading Iraq and finding no WMD's AND pass up the opportunity to declare war on Iraq for a WMD attack OR the anthrax was NOT weaponized by Iraq, as it was coated and prepared differently than the Iraqi anthrax weaponization program did, but prepared in a way researched and used in past US programs. In short, the conspiracy theory fails on any examination of the facts as known.Wzrd1 (talk) 20:02, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Expert Behavioral Analysis Panel[edit]

Their conclusion is utterly baseless, as the Army does not perform background investigations, at the time, the FBI did, which changed, if memory serves, around 2004-2005 to OPM performing the background investigations. Something that ANYONE who ever had a clearance would know. The ONLY thing that is correct in their conclusion is that he should not have had a clearance when he showed signs of mental illness. But, to blame his employer, the US Army, is as correct as blaming his parish priest for not investigating him, as neither DOES perform background investigations at all. The Army CAN "pull" his clearance at any time, even for mere suspicion of instability. That it failed to do so shows a habitual failure by the Army to follow their own regulations regarding clearances and access, as was further displayed in the Manning case. Even if a clearance is suspended, it CAN be regained, if his mental health issues are successfully treated.Wzrd1 (talk) 20:08, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

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