Talk:Bulgarian–Ottoman wars

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This is a very one-sided biased article making little or no effort to look at the Ottoman Turkish references. It has no reference of Turkish origin, even though one side in this battle is Ottoman Turks. If the Turkish references were used, the bias of this article will be self-evident. The reason is that Turkish historians do not include a battle that is given the name of Maritsa Battle or Chernomen Battle that has taken place on 26 September 1371. In Ottoman-Turkish history books there is a battle called Sirp Sindigi (Rout of the Serbs) which has taken place on 26 September 1364. References in English are found in S.J.Shaw (1976) History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey Vol.1 Empire of Gazis Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, p.18 and D.Nicolle, (1983), Armies of the Ottoman Turks 1300-1774, Osprey Pub. London, p.28. Noyder (talk) 02:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Please improve the article if you can. The lack of Turkish sources is motivated by the inaccesibility of such sources to the editors who have worked on this article (either because of the language barrier, or their unavailability in local libraries). A referenced Turkish perspective is more than welcome (this doesn't mean such perspective should remove the Bulgarian perspective from the article, both POVs should be presented).Baltaci (talk) 20:45, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Chernomen has nothing to do with Bulgarians because it's part of Serbian/Turkish history.--79.175.118.32 (talk) 01:24, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

True, the Christian armies were led by princes of Serbian origin, but they ruled principalities populated mostly by Bulgarian population, and definitely not Serbia proper. The aftermath of the battles is that territories populated by Bulgarians came under the Ottoman realm. Also, as the article states, parts of the armies consisted of Bulgarian soldiers, so to state that the battles have nothing to do with Bulgarians is incorrect. But feel free to add the above to the article as it most certainly helps clarify the picture. If you look at Битката при Марица in Bulgarian, this is pretty well explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.77.255.63 (talk) 18:43, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

References

Balkan wars

Please, do not re-insert biased off-topic info about the Balkan wars. If you want, just add this article in See also section. Thank you. Jingiby (talk)

You are not explaining why are you deleting the Balkan Wars. They were Ottoman-Bulgarian.--Ceco31 (talk) 10:17, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

I have deleted them because they were not Bulgarian-Ottoman, but Balkan Wars, i.e. their historicll background is unrelated to the Medieval Bulgarian-Ottoman wars. Jingiby (talk)

Thank you, for the hat-note, Future. Jingiby (talk)

They were not Bulgarian Ottoman is a nonsense. If they were not such what were the Balkan Wars then? Because they were between the states with the name Bulgaria and Ottoman Empire they were Bulgarian-Ottoman, so I do not understand what do you mean and what is your point is, so, explain, thanks.--Ceco31 (talk) 10:51, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

While the Balkan wars also involved Bulgarians and Ottomans, they are not conventionally called "Bulgarian-Ottoman Wars" (partly because, obviously, there were other parties involved too); their universal name is "Balkan Wars". In any case, even if the term "Bulgarian-Ottoman wars" were commonly applied to them – which I don't see as being the case –, this article is still not about them. Encyclopedia articles are structured by factual topics, not by names, so even if two wars in two different periods shared the same name, we would still not have a common article about them; at most, we would introduce some means of disambiguation. I've inserted the dab hatnote for that purpose now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:57, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

This is clear that the Balkan Wars involved Ottomans Bulgarians and other Balkan nations. The name Second Bulgarian empire should be corrected to Bulgarian city states because several independent city states each with its own army, which is not an empire at all, were those that were warring with the Ottoman empire, this was not an Bulgarian empire at all.--Ceco31 (talk) 11:55, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
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Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:07, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV - section "The fall of the Rhodopes"

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! José Luiz ^talk 22:29, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Ottoman vs. Selcuk

The author of this article fails to distinguish Selcuk turks from the Ottomans when reffering to the battles of Momchil. 31.182.223.191 (talk) 22:40, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

1) in English, they are known as Seljuk Turks. 2) after the fall of the Great Seljuk Empire, the only remnant was that group of Seljuks in Asia Minor, known as the Ottomans - the other various realms all being obliterated by the Mongols. -HammerFilmFan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.25.27 (talk) 15:02, 20 August 2022 (UTC)