Talk:Castelnau, London

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Merge[edit]

It is incorrectly spelt or at least a variation and and talks about the same area. Simply south (talk) 23:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Strongly Support as there are two articles for the same thing. It doesn't need to be tagged Castelnau, London as there isn't anywhere of the same name so Castelnau is fine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anywikiuser (talkcontribs) 17:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Yah should just go right ahead, the other article is a stubby bit of trivia. After, it will redirect here - so, doesn't really matter what this is called. cheers Kbthompson (talk) 17:40, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Is Castelnau an area or just a road?[edit]

This article is based on the assumption that the name Castelnau refers to an area including the London Wetlands Centre at one end and St Paul's School and Harrods Depository at the other, but I have to question if this is so - I think Castelnau may be only the road, not the area. If it is an area, could we please have some checkable references. All I can find indicates that the whole area is called Barnes, or possibly North Barnes:

  • Street name signs sometimes include the area name Barnes, never Castelnau. Examples are Washington Road Barnes, Trinity Church Road Barnes, Stillingfleet Road Barnes (although Castelnau Community Centre is in that street), Boilleau Road Barnes, Newport Road Barnes, St Hilda's Road Barnes. I have more listed from a quick drive round, but won't bother to list them all here - you get the idea.
  • There are signs 'North Barnes Controlled Zone' in the area. (This leads me to remove the POV comment about the use of the name North Barnes to improve property prices.)
  • The church in 'Trinity Church Road Barnes' has a sign calling it 'Holy Trinity Church Barnes', not Castelnau.
  • London Wetlands Centre (on its website) gives its address as Barnes, not Castlenau.

I will take a guess that 'Castelnau' was once used as the name of the very small area just south of Hammersmith Bridge - was this once a village? But the name as an area is now in disuse, it seems to me. Patche99z (talk) 17:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I have done some more checks:

  • Castelnau does not appear as an area name in any street atlases or maps I have consulted.
  • It does not pop up as an electoral district or borough ward.
  • Local shops in Castelnau itself give their addresses as, for example, 188 Castelnau, Barnes, London SW13.
  • However, a housing development in 1926 was called "Castelnau Estate". This is located just west of Castelnau. Castelnau Community Centre is in a former church in this area.

So I am sure that the confusion arises because of the Castelnau Estate, which residents may well informally call just Castelnau. However, if word of mouth is allowable for that, it is also allowable for people I know who live/lived in Castelnau itself or nearby, and who call the district Barnes. So the article as it stands exaggerates the extent of the area "Castlenau", which really means just the road. I will amend it accordingly. Patche99z (talk) 16:50, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Map wise, see here and here. There is a Castelnau Library and a community project. In other words, it points to it being both. Simply south (talk) 17:14, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Thank you - interesting. You have searched on Google Maps for Castelnau London, which I would take to be the road, and it has placed its marker well east of the road. When I search on Glentham Road, which is nearby, the area name Castelnau disappears. On Multimap, you appear to have searched on the single word Castelnau, which brings up that name to the east of Castelnau (road) at the first scale, and then at a larger scale to the west beside the river, which area is outside the Castelnau Estate. Searching again on Glentham Road, the area name Castelnau does come up, as you say, but over Lonsdale Road near the river again.
The maps I searched were paper ones - Ordance Survey Street Atlas of London published in 2000; AA Street by Street Big Atlas London (2007); Ordance Survey Landranger Map 176; Reprint of the first edition of the one-inch Ordance Survey of England and Wales, Sheet 71, London and Windsor with railways added to 1891; and Imray C2 The River Thames. (The Imray is of the river, of course, but shows useful area and sub-area names - Kew, Mortlake, Barnes and Putney south of the river in this area, Grove Park, Chiswick, Hammersmith and Fulham north of the river.)
The library is located in Castelnau (the road) so its name adds nothing to the debate, and the Community Project is located in the Community Centre, which I have noted above as being in an old church in Castelnau Estate, so it is named after the estate.
This matter caught my attention when the article was linked to Chiswick. I have known Castelnau (the road) for 30 years or so, and have had friends in Castelnau itself and a small road near the river, west of the bridge, and the area name in the address is always Barnes. So I searched for some hard evidence. Multimap, as you point out, is the only use of Castelnau as an area name that I have yet seen. I think it makes sense that the residents of Castelnau Estate should abbreviate it to one word Castelnau (although I have no evidence of that). Incidentally, the Estate is really very attractive - and not all local government estates are that!
I think I have got it about right at the moment, with the emphasis on the road, and mention of the estate. I am very clear that Castelnau is not a widely used area name. Patche99z (talk) 17:58, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
There are lots of other places where the name of the road is also the name of the area e.g. Rayners Lane, Lisson Grove, Holborn etc Simply south (talk) 22:16, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
With all due respect (and I do mean that sincerely), the above contribution by Patche99z is an example of how one person can get a bee in his/her bonnet, go off down a false trail, find some evidence to prove his/her case without checking sufficiently to see whether there's evidence to the contrary and then wrongly change the whole thrust of an article on Wikipedia. Castelnau is without doubt the name frequently applied to the wider area, not just the name of a road. Streetmap (based on Ordnance Survey and Bartholomew mapping) confirms this – I can supply more evidence if necessary.
On a separate matter, Andrew Saint's London Suburbs, AD Mills's Dictionary of London Place Names, The London Encyclopedia, Chambers London Gazetteer and Caroline Taggart's Book of London Place Names all agree that Castelnau takes its name from Castelnau de la Garde not Castelnau-le-Lez. Does any published or otherwise trustworthy source support the Castelnau-le-Lez derivation? I haven't been able to find one. Russ London (talk) 12:39, 1 April 2013 (UTC)