Talk:Cheryl McKissack Daniel

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 4 July 2023 by reviewer Cl3phact0 (talk · contribs).

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The Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see WP:COIRESPONSE.

Karen at McKissack (talk · contribs) has been paid by McKissack & McKissack. Disclosure on user page.

Notes on AfC acceptance

Having recently joined AfC reviewer group, this is my first article review (and first use of the Helper script), so I thought it prudent to add a few remarks here:

WP:NOTE abundantly so, as too may well be McKissack Daniel's sister, mother (wikidata:Q105886135), father, great-uncle (wikidata:Q111678505), etc. (going right back to her great-great-grandfather Moses I). Her grand-father Moses McKissack III is already included. I've added this to the article.
All refs verified and read where possible.
Copyvio is a very low 6.5%.
I was unfamiliar with reFill, please check that this was done correctly.
C-Class rating may be insufficient. Please confirm.

Thank you, Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:45, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Post-publication

Thank you, TJMSmith for your improvements to the article. The use of WP:ILL to link Wikidata items relevant to missing articles is brilliant! I've used {{ill|}} extensively to redlink articles from other languages in the hope that this may result in an English article being written (and/or to remind myself to do so), but I had never thought of this intriguing usage. It may well be a technique that could be used in an impactful manner more generally in the WIR project.

On another topic, there has been quite a lot of discussion about the optimal usage of the WIR wrapper templates here and here. With this in mind, I'm going to move the wrapper out of the banner shell for now to highlight one of the advantages of these (and also to underscore one of the proposed solutions to the matter). Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 05:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PS: See discussion re: WP:ILL use on WIR Talk. I've slightly amended the usage here based on this (using a small "d" seems slightly less distracting to an ordinary reader, while still preserving the very useful Wikidata link). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 07:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussed elsewhere, but my view remains that all WIR banners should be within the banner shell where present in the name of reducing talk page clutter and it is clearly a project banner, but I won't move the one on this page again. -Kj cheetham (talk) 12:21, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kj cheetham: Noted/thank you. I'm looking into this and collecting examples of other event-specific or atypical banners that differ (in my view) from "normal" wikiproject banners. Please give me a bit of time, I need to get a better grip on the coding/technical side. I'll post something on WIR Talk once I've organised my thoughts properly. Also, the points raised re: how the wrapper banners might be consolidated does seem worth exploring further (just not merging them into one mega-WIR banner that conflates ~300 --> 1 and breaks a lot of crockery). If a solution that is seen by those concerned as a welcome improvement rather than uninvited meddling can be found – all the better! Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 13:37, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merging WIR banners is a very different (but related) issue to whether WIR banners should be inside or outside the shell from my point of view. But after a few years I am very very strongly on the side they should be inside the shell, and don't want to encourage a single project to be prioritised over others. -Kj cheetham (talk) 14:23, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kj cheetham: Thanks, understood that usage, placement, and merge are different (though related). There's a nascent discussion on the question brewing here. Your thoughts, while apparently different from mine, would add welcome perspective. Again, my motivation is simply to make the system work well and satisfy as many needs/objectives as possible (and hopefully avoid future disagreement). -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 06:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cl3phact0 this talk page is completely the wrong venue, so this'll be my last comment on the topic here. I just wanted to add I have enough stress from projects wanting special treatment for them being unique (like every other one) in the real world, hence something I try to avoid getting dragged into on here, and a reason why I am not a member of WIR, though do interact them as I am a member of the Women scientists WikiProject. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:23, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 10:33, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Minor edits

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Hello! It is incredibly exciting to see Cheryl's page be accepted through AfC. However, I do have a few suggested changes to the article. Since I have a COI, as I'm an employee of McKissack & McKissack and here on Cheryl's behalf, I will simply suggest the changes here so that non-COI editors can review:

1) Strike "architectural" from the introduction.

This is a change I also plan on pursuing on the McKissack & McKissack page, as the company has shifted away from architecture during Cheryl's tenure as CEO and is now focusing on being a design and construction management company.^[1]

2) Change introduction from "Cheryl McKissack Daniel, also known as Cheryl McKissack Felder" to "Cheryl McKissack Daniel, formerly known as Cheryl McKissack Felder".

Cheryl has not gone by the last name "Felder" in over twenty years since her divorce, so "formerly" seems to make more sense, if it's not possible to just remove entirely.

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

[NB: I've removed the previous permutation of her name as in my view, it isn't needed in the lead (this information is retained in the infobox as well as wikidata). Stylistically, the lead simply reads better without. If it is deemed relevant to the article, it could be added elsewhere in the main body.] -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 11:06, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

3) Add William DeBerry McKissack to the Parents section of the infobox.

DeBerry is already mentioned in the article, yet he doesn't have a spot in the infobox like Leatrice does.^[1]^[2]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

[NB: Some or all of the other family members (mother, father, sister, granduncle, etc.) are likely suitable candidates for inclusion in this encyclopaedia.] -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 13:23, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

4) Change the spelling of "honoured" to "honored" in the final sentence of the Career section.

The US English spelling of the word makes more sense here as Cheryl is American.

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

Thank you so much to any editor that takes the time to review these proposed changes. If you have any questions for me, I am more than ready to respond. Karen at McKissack (talk) 22:08, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b "From Slave Labor to Thriving Business › Family Business Magazine". www.familybusinessmagazine.com. Retrieved 2021-02-23.
^ Arntz, Sarah (2021-04-01). "Building Nashville: A History of the McKissack & McKissack Architecture Firm". Nashville Public Library.

Hello again! In case they hadn't seen this request, I'm back to ping User:Cl3phact0 who reviewed the article, User:TJMSmith who made various improvements and User:Kj cheetham who was active in the discussion above, to see if they have any interest in this request. Thank you so much! Karen at McKissack (talk) 21:50, 25 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Karen, this is on my list and I plan to revise accordingly. There are also two technical issues (use of wikidata in notes and placement of WIR template on Talk page) that are outstanding and need further attention. I will try to find time resolve all of these issues soon (if someone else doesn't get to it first). Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 08:37, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Karen at McKissack, I'll leave this to someone else in this instance, but I've also posted a message on your user talk page with a bit more detail about requesting edits with a COI, as using the edit template flags it to a wider audience going forward (though there's still often a fairly long queue!). -Kj cheetham (talk) 09:33, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey User:Cl3phact0, jumping back into this thread to see if you've found any time to review my minor edits submission. Since nobody has hopped back in here to evaluate the request, I figured I would ping you to see if you had time. Once again, thank you so much! Karen at McKissack (talk) 11:42, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Karen at McKissack: I can help, but can you provide any independent third party sources for the requested changes? Everything should be sourced, however difficult that might be. STEMinfo (talk) 01:27, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the response. For the removal of architecture from the introduction sentence, please refer to this Family Business Magazine piece that points directly to McKissack & McKissack moving away from architecture during Cheryl's tenure at the company.^[1]

For the change from "Cheryl McKissack Daniel, also known as Cheryl McKissack Felder" to "Cheryl McKissack Daniel, formerly known as Cheryl McKissack Felder", Cheryl was divorced and remarried many years ago, and her name has been reflected in media coverage now as Cheryl McKissack Daniel. If we can just remove the mention of the old last name, that might make more sense.^[2]

Although I provided citations to add William DeBerry McKissack to the Parents section of the infobox above, I will relist them here for ease of reference.^[1]^[3]

And finally the change from "honoured" to "honor" seems self-explanatory as Cheryl is American and the proper US English spelling of the word is "honored."

Thank you again for revising and I hope these sources can help get these changes implemented. Karen at McKissack (talk) 14:34, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b "From Slave Labor to Thriving Business › Family Business Magazine". www.familybusinessmagazine.com. Retrieved 2023-08-18.
^ Kenney, Tanasia (2019-06-25). "Nation's Oldest Black-Woman Owned Construction Firm Behind Renovation Efforts at Laguardia, JFK Airports". Atlanta Black Star. Retrieved 2023-03-13.
^ Arntz, Sarah (2021-04-01). "Building Nashville: A History of the McKissack & McKissack Architecture Firm". Nashville Public Library.

Hello Karen at McKissack, I made three of the requested edits shortly before you added this comment (see above). The fourth may require more effort (rewrite and still preserve the origin story; align with other article, etc.). Also, I added the {{reflist-talk}} code which moved the references to the relevant section above (please also see WP:NOREFONTALK). From memory, these are used in the article itself too. Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 16:16, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for taking the time to evaluate the request and implement the changes. For the change of removing "architecture" from the introduction, on the McKissack & McKissack page the reference to architecture has been removed from the first sentence of the article that describes the current firm. While the company was originally an architecture firm, during Cheryl's time as owner and CEO, the company hasn't operated as an architecture firm which is reflected in the sourcing provided.

Again, thank you for taking the time to implement the changes, and I hope I've provided enough evidence to make this final change as well. Karen at McKissack (talk) 22:47, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Back in this thread to ping Spintendo here to see if you have any thoughts on my reply above. Over on the McKissack & McKissack page, the reference to architecture was stricken from at least its first mention in the intro. If you had any thoughts on removing it from Cheryl's intro, that would be great. Thank you so much! Karen at McKissack (talk) 13:56, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I was out of the loop on this discussion, just got the ping. If I'm reading it correctly, you're wanting the term "architectural design" removed from the lead section so that it just states "construction company"? Please advise. Thanks! Regards, Spintendo 22:02, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello,

Only remove "architectural" design can stay. So it would read "design and construction company".

Thank you again Karen at McKissack (talk) 22:13, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Implemented I've also changed the way Moses McKissack's name was Wiki-linked in the lead section. It had previously hid the WL under the word "grandfather" (like this: grandfather). Per WP:EASTEREGG, these links should not be hidden. If the Wikipedia page were to be printed out in the old-fashioned way on paper, that link would not be seen by anyone who was reading it, and they would miss out on the information, along with any readers with visual issues who are utilizing screen readers to access Wikipedia articles. Regards, Spintendo 01:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Karen at McKissack (talk) 11:11, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[FamilyBusiness-1] "From Slave Labor to Thriving Business › Family Business Magazine". www.familybusinessmagazine.com. Retrieved 2021-02-23.

[Arntz-2] Arntz, Sarah (2021-04-01). "Building Nashville: A History of the McKissack & McKissack Architecture Firm". Nashville Public Library.

[FamilyBuisiness-3] "From Slave Labor to Thriving Business › Family Business Magazine". www.familybusinessmagazine.com. Retrieved 2023-08-18.

[Kenney19-4] Kenney, Tanasia (2019-06-25). "Nation's Oldest Black-Woman Owned Construction Firm Behind Renovation Efforts at Laguardia, JFK Airports". Atlanta Black Star. Retrieved 2023-03-13.

[Arntz-5] Arntz, Sarah (2021-04-01). "Building Nashville: A History of the McKissack & McKissack Architecture Firm". Nashville Public Library.

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