Talk:Count of Tyrone

After 8th Count

Could we have some more information on the fate of the title after the death of the 8th Count? A title is not something that can be "left in the care" of a person: it's inherited, or dormant when the heir is not known. It also seems very strange that the King of Spain would resign his rights to act as a fons honorum because he went into exile. Furthermore, this page claims that the last Count, presumably the 8th, "settled the style by a family pact on Dom Jorge, The O'Neill Buidhe (Clannaboy) in 1901". We really need a source for the claim of Jacques. Choess 02:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed on "care of", it was dormant. The other O'Neill family laid claim to the title and it apparently took 50 years (I'm told due to the wars of 1914 to 1945) to have the male heir restored. I'm using the Vatican text of the restoration of the grant as the basis for the modern history. The earlier history I'm primarily using a book titled "O'Neill, the Ancient and Royal Family" by Desmond O'Neill. There is long been a desire to attach the title Tyrone to the O'Neill of Clannaboy family. While they are certainly the leaders of their area, and entitled to use "Count" there is zero historical reason to give Tyrone to this family. The present O'Neill Clannaboy refuses the "Tyrone" title and rightly uses Prince of Clanaboy. That site is correct to show a link between the Johnson Baronets of New York and this family, although it is distant. Princeton 03, February 3, 2007.

It all looks highly dubious. "Comes Jacobum de Tyrone" looks odd both in using the accusative and putting the name and title in that order rather than "Jacobus Comes de Tyrone": "Count James of Tyrone" looks like the continental style of courtesy title to younger brothers and cousins, rather than the Count himself. In addition there is there is no reference younger than 2002. And whether "Jorge O'Neill (died 1901) a peer of Portugal" was something more, see [1], though probably not a reliable source, is likely to have picked it up from somewhere. --Rumping (talk) 18:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Check this out . This publication, County Tyrone Ireland, Genealogy and Family History Notes - "Including Coats of arms & genealogical notes 1659 A.D.-1900 A.D.", (County Tyrone Ireland, Genealogy and Family History Notes: Genealogy & Family History : Special Extracts from the Irish Archives

By Irish Genealogical Foundation (U.S.), Irish Genealogical Foundation, Michael C. O'Laughlin

Published by Irish Roots Cafe, 2002

ISBN 0940134799, 9780940134799

56 pages)

seems to corroborate at least the existence of Mary Auguste Eugenia O'Neill.

Counts of Tyrone (1623)

   * Patrick O'Neill, 1st Count of Tyrone b. 1623
   * James O'Neill, 2nd Count of Tyrone (b. 1660), lived in Ireland then moved to Martinique
   * Henry O'Neill, 3rd Comte de Tyrone
   * Jacques Henri, 4th Comte de Tyrone, brother was Jean Laurent, 1st Viscount Tyrone, Dillon Regt
   * Paul Francois Henri, 5th Comte de Tyrone (b. 1749)
   * Jacques, 6th Comte de Tyrone (1783–1839), brother was Francois Henri, 2nd Viscount Tyrone
   * Louis Jacques Tiburce, 7th Comte de Tyrone (d. 1859)
   * Francois Henri, 8th Comte de Tyrone (brother of Louis Jacques) (d. aft. 1887)
   * title dormant 1887-1937
   * Jaques, 9th Comte de Tyrone, claimed in 1937 and restored in 2006 by Vatican

I found this whilst looking for corroboration of Freiherr Von Bodman's existence:

1.2.Johann Hermann Frhr von und zu Bodman, b.Bodman 1838, d.Baden-Baden 1922; m.1st St.Florent, France 1865 Jeanne de Bernard de la Frégeolière (b.Angers 1844, d.St.Florent 1880); m.2d Paris 1881 Valentine O'Neill (b.Paris 1849, d.Baden-Baden 1913)

Johann Hermann and Valentine O'Neill, however this would put their deaths in 1922 and 1913, respectively. Hardly living well into the Weimer republic.

Also, Augusta Eugenie Valentine O'Neill de Tyrone is mentioned in The Nobilities of Europe (Paperback) by Melville Henry Massue; marquis de Ruvigny (Author). 2000. $29.99 from Amazon and he has several books on the same theme. She and her surviving sister Marie Anne Marguerite O'Neill in Paris, August 14th 1901, made a pact whereby all titles and qualifications of the French-Martinique branch of the Great O'Neills were devolved upon the head of the Portuguese family i.e. Clanaboy (in French).

Also, a Mary-Auguste-Eugenia-Valen tine, mar. to Hermann Baron de Bodinan is mentioned in Irish Pedigrees, by John Hart (1999) (Genealogical Publishing Company). It must be noted that the first edition was published in 1878.

Again, from the Genealogical Publishing company

County Tyrone Ireland, Genealogy and Family :::History Notes: Genealogy & Family History : :::Special Extracts from the Irish Archives

By Irish Genealogical Foundation (U.S.), Irish Genealogical Foundation, Michael C. O'Laughlin :::Published by Irish Roots Cafe, 2002

ISBN 0940134799, 9780940134799

56 pages

Mary-Auguste-Eugenia-Valentine, mar. to Herman Baron de Bodman ("Grand Duché de Baden"). She supposedly had another two sisters; Mary-Anne Margaret and Mary-Anne-Thérese d. um. 1877. Daughters of Francis-Henry and Hermine de la Ponce and niece of Julien. Also mentioned is a certain Charles Count O'Neill de Tyrone (a cousin of Francis-Henry or Francois-Henri).

I have incorporated much of the solid research and sources listed above and tried to clarify questions. I am unable to address the issue of only having recent publications. I'm not sure I understand the issue after looking at the list of references. I hope these additions solidify the scholarship. (214.13.199.121 (talk) 21:25, 25 January 2009 (UTC))

Found some recent O'Neill family information about all of them coming together in Ireland in Fall 2007, Rome in 2008, and apparently again in 2009. Included members of the family listed by the O'Neill Summer School. (214.13.199.121 (talk) 14:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC))

References

Patrick O'Neill

There isn't any mention of a Patrick O'Neill, son of John (Seán), but explicit mention of only son Don Hugo Eugenio. It's difficult to fathom why this Patrick stayed in Mayo, Ireland rather than join his more successful kinsmen on the continent? Yes, there is record of an O'Neill family on Martinique, Basse-Pointe and of a Valentine O'Neill in France, but can we be sure their descent from the Patrick and his supposed relationship to Seán is authentic?? I haven't been able to find this 'Jacques D'Tyrone' online. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.255.236.104 (talk) 17:50, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

These references all mention Patrick and lay out his descendants:

• "The Journal of the Kilkenny and South-East of Ireland Archaeological Society" Vol. V, 1864-1866. pg 91-95, 457-464
• "Annuaire de la Noblesse", by M. Borel d'Hauterire. pg. 243 Paris, 1859
• "Genealogical Translation Irish to Latin", by Hugh Buidhe McCurtin, translated in 1739, French National Documents, Saumur.
• "Certificate Corps de Officers, Brigade de Walsh, attestiment pour Jean Henri O'Neill, Viscomte de Tyrone", Martinico, 1784
• "The Will of John O'Neill, 3rd Earl of Tirown, 1660", by Micheline Walsh, Cumman Seanchais Ard Mhacha, 1974, pg 324
• "The Ancient and Royal Family of O'Neill", under Hugh Rua O'Neill, by Desmond O'Neill, Washington, 1995
• "Irish Pedigrees, or the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation, part III" by John O'Hart. pg. 708-726, Dublin 1881

John/Sean/Shane O'Neill, Earl of Tyrone 1620-1641 had no children from his marriage. However, he is known to have had multiple illegitimate children, thus it is quite possible that Patrick was not legitimate. The young Earl was serving in the Court of the Spanish Netherlands and not married in 1622. There are many references to the fact that the son, Don Hugo Eugenio, was illegitimate; to include the Earl's own will from 1660. In it he refers to Eugenio as his "natural" son. However, there are other references to a "natural" daughter in that same document and an estranged wife. With as many resources that all point to the same genealogy I think it is non-academic to ignore more than 200 years of history. Princeton03 Princeton03 (talk) 19:24, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, will review sources. Who is this "Jacques/Jacobum" de Tyrone? What is his full name, his profession? His age? Birth place? How is he related to these Martinique O'Neills? A lost cousin? Is he descended agnatically? In which country does he live? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.56.234 (talk) 23:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

He would simply appear to be, after reading the article carefully, now the senior male line descendant of (the hated) Conn Bacach, the 1st Earl of Tyrone. So he does not descend from the actual Counts of Tyrone but from the person for whom the original title was created. It does not say if the new Count is also a descendant of Conn's celebrated son Shane or of a brother. In any case I think we can rely on the Vatican to have researched this carefully. DinDraithou (talk) 02:41, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Let's have a source that the Vatican actually did anything. I can't find any. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:02, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Unsourced and irrelevant

The genealogical work stalled during the Second World War, but later petitions were made and after years of research and study the Vatican Secretariate of State in 2006 issued a "confirmamus" or confirmation of the dignity of Count and gave territorial reference to a closely related line that also descends in the male line from Conn Bacach O'Neill, 1st Earl of Tyrone, and is a close cousin to the 1st Count of Tyrone.

The Papal finding is written in Latin and reads “Jacobum de Tyrone, Comes” or Count James of Tyrone. This signifies a change in the title, as the Vatican no longer issues historical judgments that contradict the laws or findings of other sovereign nations; in this case the UK peerage title of the modern Earl of Tyrone. The change shows the familial lineage of the title, the O’Neill Earls & Counts of Tyrone, but the title has been separated from the dignity of the land (the previous title would have been written as James, Count of Tyrone). This is in recognition to agreements made in the restored relations between the Vatican and the United Kingdom in 1740.

Recently the O’Neill clan as a whole has taken steps to organize the entire extended family, incorporating all the O’Neill family groups, septs, and associated clans. In September 2007, under the leadership of the O'Neill of Clanaboy, to celebrate of the 400th anniversary of Hugh O’Neill, Earl of Tyrone and the Earl of Tyrconnell, the Flight of the Earls, out of Ireland, the leaders of the various O'Neill clans from across the world met in Portugal. It was the first time in four centuries that all O’Neill leaders were in Ireland at the same time. The Association of O’Neill Clans was officially started with the family council membership granted to those invited: the Prince of Clandeboye (Portugal),the O’Neill of France, the O’Neills of Bellaghy,. None which has anything to do with the title mentioned above which is an English title not a European one and has nothing to do with legitimate Gaelic titles owned By Don Carlos of Spain Chief of the Fews branch of the O'Neill clan and Hugo O'Neill Prince of Clandeboye the only O'Neill Chief recognized by the Irish Government and the Chief Herald of Ireland.

There is no source for any of this (and at least one claim is OR; Comes is the Latin for Earl)? The last paragraph is merely irrelevant; the preceding two are serious claims about living persons which are completely unsourced. -= and ignores widespread and credible claims that "Patrick O'Neill" never existed. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:02, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

More unsourced and unsupported material

As far as I can tell the actual sources for this article are

• A French article from le Annuaire de la noblesse de France et des maisons souveraines de l'Europe and
• An English version from the The journal of the Kilkenny and South-east of Ireland Archaeological Society from 1866, a slightly abridged translation (for example it doesn't explain to an Irish readership that the Cenell Eoghain is descended from Eogain, son of Niall of the Nine Hostages).

Both assert the family's own claims (there are other variants of those claims) which are held by three reliable sources to be unproven. Far more seriously, this article misrepresents even those claims, with unsourced and unlikely assertions.

The sources refer to the family as Comte de Tyrone/Count of Tyrone. But this is merely the French for Earl of Tyrone: in both versions it is used of Earl Hugh who fled in 1607. It is not a new title.

They say nothing about the Empress Josephine; nothing about fighting for the Spanish in 1778-83; and these claims are unsourced. That doesn't leave much. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 10:03, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

[2] from 1624 is an interesting document. DinDraithou (talk) 16:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's a fascinating document. In 1624, Patrick O'Neill would have been two years old; therefore, this means Shane (mac Hugh) O'Neill, who was - by consensus - in command of a regiment in Flanders at the time, and calling himself, as the oldest (living) legitimate son of his father, Earl of Tyrone. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:03, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Shane/Juan/John was calling himself the Earl or Conde of Tyrone. In the Spanish Knights of Irish origin, accounts of this Shane/Juan/John in Spain and being referred to in royal documents as the Conde de Tyrone as early as 1632, not long after he moved with his regiment out of the Netherlands and into Spain proper. Also, see Micheline Walsh Kearney's translation of the said John O'Neill's Will dated just prior to his death in 1640. It her introduction she states that Spanish documents begin to refer to John as the Earl of Tyrone immediately following his father's death in 1616. Princeton03 (talk) 15:19, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

And that he had one son: Hugo Eugenio O'Neill, born illegitimate in 1631. Patrick is an unproven invention. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:18, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Creation

Depending on how the title descent is counted, Sean was the 3rd, 4th, or 5th Earl in exile of the Earldom of Tyrone. After the death of two of his older brothers and his father, Sean ascended to the title that was first regranted from England by the Papacy and then by the King of Spain. Don Juan/Sean went to the Court of Brussels and at a young age was a page to the Spanish viceroy. The newer Comital title was granted by the Infanta Isabella Clara Eugenia of Spain and the Netherlands, translated to "Count of Tyrone" and created in 1623 as a Spanish Netherlands title, for Patrick to honor his father Sean who was the Colonel of the Irish in Flanders. According to his will, Sean left his Spanish title and possessions to his other son Hugo Eugene O'Neill.

All this is unsourced. It is incompatible even with the family claims, which make no mention of a creation. (The first sentence is merely confusing; Shane O'Neill claimed to be Earl of Tyrone, but the numbering is not of those in exile, it is of the Earls of Tyrone from Conn Bacagh onward; the uncertainty is whether to count his uncle Brien and his brother Henry.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:23, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure of your source on family claims. It started in 1558 upon the death of Conn Bacach O'Neill, his son Shane "an Diomas" O'Neill's pressed for formal recognition of the estates he possessed. In 1561 he made a visit to London. There he began to discuss with Queen Elizabeth his father's Earldom. That title or legal estate was granted as a part of the Treaty of Benburb in 1563. However, he went into rebellion again before the ceremony. So there was a signed document confirming the Earldom of Tyrone upon Shane O'Neill (State Papers Relating to Ireland, 1563, & "A Notice of the Career of Shane O'Neill" by Thomas O'Gorman) but it was never put into his hands. After Shane's nephew Hugh Rua (made the 2nd Earl of Tyrone instead in 1585) fled Ireland in 1607, he was recognized in Rome as the Earl of Tyrone. Both Rome and Spain recognied that rank and title until his death in 1616. At that point, the King of Spain continued to recognize a series of Hugh Rua's male relatives through at least 1692. This is documented in the translated versions from the Spanish archives in "The Will of John O'Neill, 3rd Earl of Tyrone", "Don Bernardo O'Neill of Aughacloy, Co. Tyrone", "Knights of Spanish Origin, vols. I, II, III", and "The Ancient and Royal Family of O'Neill".Princeton03 (talk) 15:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Rebellion of 1641

At the time of the Irish Rebellion of 1641, Patrick, possibly his father, and his cousin General Eoghan or Owen Roe O'Neill, and many of the other family members serving in Continental armies returned to Ireland and fought in the Irish Confederate Wars (1641–53). One source shows that Sean commanded Owen Roe's cavalry in the rebellion and was "removed" with Owen to County Mayo at the end of rebellion. Some sources show him in Ireland after 1646. However, multiple others show him dying in 1641 while leading his Regiment in Spain. Based on a modern translation of his Last Will and Testament, written in 1640, it is most likely that Sean died in Spain, as his will was dated there just prior to his death. General Owen Roe's death in 1649 and the eventual defeat of the Irish during the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland in 1649-1653 left the family in Rathfrann, Co. Mayo. In 1646, Patrick married Catherine O'Dogherty of Ardmir and Innishowen. They had a son named James O'Neill, born and baptised in Rathfrann, Mayo in 1660. His eminent godparents were Dominick O'Donnell and Honora de Burgh, both of Irish noble families<:ref>"Genealogical Translation Irish to Latin, O'Neill", by Hugh Buidhe McCurtin, translated in 1739, French National Documents, Saumur</ref>.

The footnote is bull; it is badly taken from the Kilkenny report of the family claims, and "French National Documents" is a falsehood; it was in the personal collection of M. le vicomte de Tyrone, who happened to be a magistrate.

The rest of this incompletely represents the conflict of the sources: the family alone, only, assert that Shane and Patrick were in Ireland with Owen Roe; other sources say Shane was dead and never mention Patrick(one life of Owen Roe O'Neill mentions Shane only to suggest that his inaction was just as well for the national cause). At exactly this time, Owen Roe said that the head of the family was "Don Constantino" who was in Spain. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:23, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Service

The family's sons served proudly as officers in Dillon's or Walsh's Irish Regiments, in the Irish Brigade (French) Army. During the American Revolution, at least one officer of the family served with General Bernardo de Gálvez y Madrid, Count of Gálvez of the Spanish Army, under French approval, in his campaigns against the English in Louisiana, Georgia, and Florida.

Unsourced; "Irish Brigade (French) Army" is less than English. That O'Neills served with Dillon, Walsh or Galvez is unsurprising; that any were members of this family is unsupported. (There's a great difference between the Martinique militia and regiments of the Line.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:49, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Josephine

In the late 18th century, the Comté de Tyrone was a fellow sugar plantation owner and friends with the Tascher de le Pagerie family there in Martinique. This proved eventful when Napoleon Bonaparte took as his wife, Marie Josèphe Rose Tascher de la Pagerie, born in Les Trois-Îlets, Martinique, and widow of Alexandre, Vicomte de Beauharnais. She was a daughter of Joseph-Gaspard de Tascher, chevalier, seigneur de la Pagerie, lieutenant of infantry of the navy, and his wife, the former Rose-Claire des Vergers de Sanois. When their friend Josephine became Empress of France in 1804, the fortunes of the Counts O'Neill improved as well. Jacques, the 6th Count, took his two sons and joined the Irish Legion of Napolean. The three of them were officers in the 7th Cuirrassier Regiment. During the war, his son Francois Henri won the Legion de Honor. The second sons of the Count were given the courtesy style of Vicomte de Tyrone. Jean Laurent O'Neill and Francois Henri O'Neill were the 1st and 2nd such holders. Both were officers in Irish regiments of the French Army at different times.

Unsourced and unsupported as far as I can find. That a French family claiming nobility should call its younger sons vicomte (especially after the Revolution) does not require a grant from the state. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:49, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Baron Herman

He is, at least, verifiable. But the claim that he was a junior member of the family of Friedrich I, Grand Duke of Baden. Herman was later Prime Minister of Baden. is not confirmable. I have spelt his name and title correctly, and will supply German genealogical sources, if nobody else does.Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:54, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Vatican documentation

I have already discussed the claim of a Vatican judgment avove; but the end of the former introduction is particularly remarkable:

See O'Hart, The Irish Brigade, or Ruvigny for source documentation.

This is the mark of a fraud. Ruvigny's Ttiled Nobility of Europe cites no sources (for most if its entries); O'Hart's Irish Brigade is unknown to WorldCat, although it contains a number of monographs by that very useful and compendious ahthor; Does it even exist? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

O'Hart wrote no such. The History of the Irish Brigades in the Service of France, listed in the references, may be what is meant. I think O'Hart is here meant to refer to the author's Irish Pedigrees. I have cited him this way in the past myself. DinDraithou (talk) 04:23, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you; please fill out such citations: O'Hart wrote another thick book on the Irish and Anglo-Irish nobility in the time of Cromwell, and several monographs on individual families (including his own; did you know the O'Harts descend from the last Kings of Tara?).

I will consult Irish Pedigrees and The History of the Irish Brigades in the Service of France Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:34, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Let me make the first easy for you: O'Hart, John, Irish Pedigrees. Dublin: James Duffy and Co. 5th edition, 1892. The second I've never used. DinDraithou (talk) 16:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you; that edition comes and goes from Google Books, for reasons I do not fully understand. Irish Brigades is here; none of the thirty-six references to a O'Neill seem to refer to the family of Martinique. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:50, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

O'Hart also says: "according to documents in the possession of the family" - and gives extracts of the same genealogy. Not even a mention of a military career for any of them. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:15, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about adding "false" by accident when fixing your link. We do at least have a pedigree and use of the title here, but I'm not saying it's accurate. O'Hart did his best, sometimes synthesizing, sometimes not, sometimes getting biographical (the O'Donovan pedigree, for example), sometimes just giving the descent. Plenty are inaccurate or false but his purpose was to find what he could. If what we're looking at is accurate, mention of military careers still might not be made. That said, I'm getting slightly worried we might be looking a case here resembling an obviously questionable (fabricated) O'Donovan pedigree that made it into Burke's,[3] conveniently giving another family seniority over my cousins' sept (the princely one). But we do seem to be looking at recognition by at least some of the other O'Neills, although this doesn't mean fabrication hasn't made it possible.

For a rather sad story about the state of the surviving O'Neills of Tyrone in Ireland in the 19th century, see the attempt at a pedigree by O'Donovan, pp. 2422-4.[4] DinDraithou (talk) 20:05, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

No problem about the false; the only reason I removed it is that I didn't say anything so bad-tempered.

I'm not seeing recognition by any of the other O'Neills; am I missing something? Ruvigny made a policy of consulting what every family wanted to say about itself, and O'Hart is copying in good faith the account in the Kilkenny magazine; when he wrote, it had not yet been noted and disputed by other genealogists (although if you read through it, you will find that the author - an in-law of these O'Neills - added an appendix against negative comment. But it may be best just to add what seems to me fair summary to the article. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

But in summary: you are probably right that three books are meant here. As far as I can tell, one of them doesn't mention this family at all; the other two cite no documentation. Are we better off without this sentence? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:38, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I guess. I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt as far as their pedigree but now have doubts about some of this other business. DinDraithou (talk) 01:25, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm not following here. Has O'Hart's Pedigrees been tossed out as a source? If not, many of the things Septentrionalis has cut out of the text are sourced. And is the entire Kilkenny Journal now not admissable as a source? Princeton03 (talk) 15:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Nineteenth century sources which are expressly and repeatedly contradicted by later research are less than reliable on the point at issue; O'Hart is fine on most issues, but not here. This is doubly true when the older source is dependent on sources written by the subject, as both O'Hart and Ruvigny are. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:35, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Quote from Ruvigny

This subscription-only website and the following quote from Ruvigny (ignore the scanning errors) may be useful to somebody else. At this point, only the header and the bibliography are undone. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

O'NEILL. Shane (John) O'Neill [said to have been 4th son of Hugh O'Neil, 3rd Earl of Tyrone [I., 1 Oct. 1542], the great Irish leader, who was attainted 28 Oct. 1614, and fled to France and thence to Rome] is stated to have sue. as 6th Earl of Tyrone on the death of his brother Bryan or John, 1641 ;<:ref>The title was, however, assumed by his cousin. See The Complete Peerage, vii. 451</ref> and to have d. in co. Mayo before 1653. His grandson James, styled 8th Earl, left Ireland with James II., and established himself with his son at la Basse Pointe in Martinique, where, under the designation of COMTES DE TYRONE, his representatives continued to reside. Henry, styled 14th Earl of Tyrone, K.C.S.L., the last male of this branch, d. s.p.rn., and by "un pacte de famille intervenu d Paris le 14 aoiit 1901, devant McKastler, Notaire, d Paris, Us derni&res reprteentantes de la branche dites des Comtes de Tyrone, fixee cl la Martinique et en France, Augusta Eugenie Valentine O'Neill de Tyrone, epouse du Baron de Bodmann, et Marie Anne Marguerite O'Neill de Tyrone ont pour se conformer d une tradition immemoriale, reverse sur la tte du chef de la ligne atnee, residant en Portugal, tons les titres et qualifications, entre autres celle de Comte de Tyrone, portee, depuis 1542, dans la branche franqaise, qui etait la leur et qui se trouve aujourd'hui eteinte dans les males pour suite du dices du pere des dites Demoiselles O'Neill de Tyrone"

Bibliography

So may some of these. Most of them are copies from somebody else's notes or are misleading; for example, Ruvigny published in 1914, not 2000. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:58, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Government Office, MS #610, pg 29 (4A) genealogies held by Irish government
• Burke's Peerage 1970 ed., (John/Sean)pg. 2028/2
• "Irish Pedigrees", John O'Hart 1892, O'Neill #5 pg. 739-40, Dublin 1881
• "The Ancient and Royal Family of O'Neill", Desmond O'Neill 1996, pg. 125-130
• State Papers of Ireland, Pardon Rolls of Queen Elizabeth 1599 & 1602 dealing with Hugh O'Neill
• State Papers of Ireland, Irish Patent Rolls of King James I, 1609 dealing with Hugh's sons
• "Anticipate", M. McShane, 2002 pg 35-45, O'Neill genealogies
• Vatican Patent #11006B14
• "The History of the Irish Brigades in the Service of France" Shannon 1969
• "Napoleon and Josephine: An Improbable Marriage",Evangeline Bruce, 1995, ISBN 0025178105
  • Has no O'Neills. Perhaps relevant to how easy it was to make up a title, as the Beauharnais did, especially in colonial Martinique.
• Almanach de Gotha, John Kennedy 1999, pg. 50, ISBN 0953214214
• General History of Martinique, 1650-1699 & 1750-1799
• "Cromwell in Ireland", James S. Wheeler
• "Gobernantes de México" Panorama Editorial, Orozco Linares, Fernando, 1985, ISBN 968-38-0260-5
• "Destruction by Peace",Kerney Walsh, pages 3–4
• "Annuaire de la noblesse de France et des maisons souveraines de l'Europe" by M. Borel D'Hautderive, pg 248, Paris 1859.
• "The Nobilities of Europe By Melville H. Ruvigny, Melville Henry Massue, marquis de Ruvigny" pg. 362, Paris.
• "The Life and Times of Aodh O'Neill" James Duffy Pub. 1846
• "County Tyrone Ireland, Genealogy and Family" History Notes: Genealogy & Family History Special Extracts from the Irish Archives, By Irish Genealogical Foundation (U.S.), Irish Genealogical Foundation, Michael C. O'Laughlin Published by Irish Roots Cafe, 2002

ISBN 0940134799, 9780940134799

• "Paul Walsh, The Will and Family of Hugh O Neill, Earl of Tyrone [with an Appendix of Genealogies]". Originally published by Colm O Lochlainn and published at the Sign of the Three Candles in Fleet Street, Dublin, in 1930; reprint for cornelius E. Dailey, Jr., by cafepress.com, 2005.
• "The Nobilities of Europe" by Melville Henry Massue; marquis de Ruvigny, 2000
• "Lives of Illustrious Irishmen" Vol II, T. Willis. pg. 23 & 435.
• "History of Ireland", Dr. Keating, Genealogical Section. Commerford. pg 204.
• http://www.oneillsummerschool.com/
• "Certificate Corps de Officers, Brigade de Walsh, attestiment pour Jean Henri O'Neill, Viscomte de Tyrone", Martinico, 1784

Mostly cribs from Ponce's 1866 article:

• O'Neill, the Ancient and Royal Family, by Desmond O'Neill, 1996
• An Account of the Irish Confederation
• Irish Pedigrees,or the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation by John O'Hart, editions III, V, Dublin 1881 & 1892, pg. 708-726
• The Journal of the Kilkenny and South-East of Ireland Archaeological Society" Vol. V, 1864–1866
• Seanchas Ard Mhacha, "The Petition of Don Bernardo O'Neill", by Micheline Kearney Walsh
  • Asserts that Shane O'Neill, son of Earl Hugh, had one son only.
• Annuaire de la Noblesse", by M. Borel d'Hauterire. pg. 243 Paris, 1859
• Genealogical Translation Irish to Latin", by Hugh Buidhe McCurtin, translated in 1739, French National Documents, Saumur.
  • This is cribbed from the Kilkenny article, and misrepresented. It is a single sentence, in both Gaelic and Latin, belonging to the subprefect of Saumur, who happened to be Francois-Henry O'Neill, "vicomte de Tyrone."
• Certificate Corps de Officers, Brigade de Walsh, attestiment pour Jean Henri O'Neill, Viscomte de Tyrone", Martinico, 1784
  • Cribbed from the Annuaire, which quotes it. It asserts that Henry O'Neill's grandfather was named Patrick, presumably accurately. Says nothing about Shane.
• The Will of John O'Neill, 3rd Earl of Tirown, 1660", by Micheline Walsh, Cumman Seanchais Ard Mhacha, 1974, pg 324
  • Says that Shane O'Neill, "Earl of Tiron", had one son, and that one was Hugo Eugenio.