Talk:Depp v. Heard/reactions

Other reactions, including in relation to #MeToo

In the aftermath of the trial, many analysts expressed fears that the verdict and trial would “have a chilling effect on women coming forward with abuse claims” and described it as a “setback for women and domestic violence survivors.” The trial has renewed debates on topics relating to domestic violence, including domestic violence against men, as well as other topics such as the #MeToo movement, cancel culture, and women's rights.

Mark Stephens, an international media lawyer, told the BBC that it was "very rare" that essentially the same case is tried both in the UK and the US with different results. Stephens identified the most important factor for the different outcomes was the American trial being before a jury while the British trial was before a judge only. Stephens alleged that Depp's lawyers used "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender" (Darvo) tactics during both trials, which focuses on the "credibility" of the alleged victim; Stephens said such tactics are more effective against juries, while in the UK trial, the judge recognised that strategy, and dismissed a large amount of evidence that did not directly address whether Depp committed assault or not. Separately, Stephens also stated that Heard's lawyers, who "were not predominantly trained libel lawyers", made tactical mistakes, and were "outgunned at every corner" by "very strong" lawyers for Depp.

Jennifer Freyd, the psychology professor who coined the term Darvo, stated that "there has been a lot of Darvo" in this case, with "an overwhelming case for Depp on social media", "like an anti-Heard campaign". Persephone Bridgman Baker, a libel lawyer with Carter-Ruck, stated that the most "obvious" reason for the verdict was "that the jury simply believed Depp’s evidence in the US proceedings, or, if you accept that a Darvo strategy was employed, that the jury accepted it." Baker said that the British judge "placed little importance" on evidence regarding's Heard's credibility and ultimately "decided Heard was a credible witness", but the American jury heard more evidence on Heard's credibility, and this "may have swung a jury".

Hadley Freeman, a journalist for The Guardian, stated that a major difference between the US and UK trials involving Depp was the broadcasting of the US trial, which made it "almost a sports game". There was large public support for Depp on social media; the jury was instructed not to read about the case online, but they were not sequestered and they were allowed to keep their phones.

The trial has been described as backlash to the #MeToo movement and a potential set back for women's rights. Constance Grady of Vox declared that the verdict represented the beginning of the "backlash" to #MeToo, and rejected the argument of Depp's supporters that his victory was an "expansion" of #MeToo to "believe all victims, including male victims". While she said there was evidence that both Depp and Heard had been violent, Grady argued that "Depp had power over Heard that she did not have over him". Miles Klee of MEL Magazine said "the trial had dangerously shifted the terrain of post-#MeToo rhetoric", and set a precedent for "a blueprint for how men in Depp’s compromised position" could "weaponize their accusers' statements against them". Angie Speaks, writing for Newsweek, stated that the verdict "seems to spell the end of the #MeToo movement's edict that we #BelieveAllWomen", while criticizing the "disregard the [#MeToo] movement has shown for the importance of due process". Conservatives, and particularly conservative women, reacted to the verdict by celebrating what they perceived as the end of #MeToo.

Tarana Burke, founder of the movement, disagreed that the verdict had tanked #MeToo, stating that people had been judging #MeToo's success on whether legal decisions went in their favour despite a legal system that failed to ensure "justice and accountability", while Burke judged #MeToo as a success because it had helped "millions" of abuse survivors to come forward. Winter Wheeler, an arbitrator and mediator, disagreed that the verdict was "a referendum on #MeToo long term", opining that people who believed it to be so were possibly unaware of certain evidence in this case. Wheeler further opined that this trial "was definitely not a situation where blind faith and belief in an alleged victim was the right way to go". Leading #MeToo lawyer Debra Katz described the trial as having unique celebrity, "dysfunction" and "craziness", but judged that the Depp v. Heard verdict was less "consequential" to #MeToo compared to Harvey Weinstein losing his appeal for his rape conviction the next day.

Tiffanie Drayton, a writer, stated to NBC News that the verdict "points to an ongoing culture that does not believe women", and sends "a very loud and clear message to survivors [of domestic abuse] like me — that we should never speak up against an abuser, especially not a famous or powerful one". The New Yorker editor Jessica Winter cited domestic violence advocates describing a chilling effect on the speech of victims of domestic violence, that they may be "disbelieved, harassed, shamed, and ostracized if they press charges or share their experiences". Law professor Eugene Volokh of Reason acknowledged that the Depp-Heard verdict would result in a chilling effect on accurate #MeToo allegations, but argued that according to Supreme Court decisions New York Times v. Sullivan and Garrison v. Louisiana, the American legal system has already "accepted the core of liability for knowing or reckless lies that damage particular people's reputations, notwithstanding the chilling effect even such reduced liability can cause."

Film critic A. O. Scott wrote in The New York Times that society "may not entirely forget, but we mostly forgive" celebrities like Depp. Sociologist Nicole Bedera, writing for Time, argued that the verdict shows that "the #MeToo movement hasn't gone far enough" because "there has been very little structural change to the systems that so predictably hurt victims", as the American criminal justice system "can't promise safety or speed. It slows down survivors' healing instead of facilitating it."

Ronnell Andersen Jones and Lyrissa Lidsky of Slate commented that Depp v. Heard showed that "defamation lawsuits do not always dislodge disinformation from public dialogue. In this case, the lawsuit just created more." According to Jones and Lisky, the result was that the trial failed to "do what defamation law is supposed to: protect anyone's reputation."

Dan Novack of The Atlantic, a media lawyer, argued that the verdict concluded a "fair trial" and was not a markedly different interpretation of the First Amendment, which he says remains "enormously protective of media reporting on credible accusations of sexual abuse. It is telling that Depp did not name the ACLU ... or The Washington Post."

Kellie Lynch, an associate professor of criminology, discussed in The Conversation that the trial's relation to intimate partner violence, a topic which Lynch said had many "nuances" that are "often overlooked". Lynch commented that the bidirectional violence is not necessarily "mutual abuse" and that, to properly understand intimate partner violence, "one must consider the context under which the violence occurs." Time's Eliana Dockterman wrote that domestic abuse is "messy and complicated", but "social media strips away nuance", resulting in the myth that victims must be "perfect", which was a standard that Amber Heard could not meet. Cathy Young, an author writing for The Bulwark, disagreed with "pro-Heard pundits" that Heard was an "imperfect victim" when these pundits already "acknowledge that there are real problems with her claims", including admission of violence and "questionable statements". Young gave an example of "battered wife, but also a shoplifter" as an example of an "imperfect victim"; Young argued that Heard was not that, but more of a "mutual combatant" and "unreliable witness".

Dan McLaughlin of National Review Online wrote of three lessons from the trial: first, "there is always a potential upside for fighting to clear your own good name even if you (like Johnny Depp) have a ton of dirty laundry". Second, McLaughlin criticized the slogan "believe all women" in favour of the pledge to "hear all women", arguing that women should not be blindly believed as women are not infallible. He said the verdict "reflects that the jury spent time with the facts and did its best to do truth and justice". Third, McLaughlin stated: "it is hard to fight fame in court or in public", Depp "was much more famous than Heard, and he was much more successful in court".

Jack Houghton, digital editor of Sky News Australia, stated that Heard's cross-examination by Camille Vasquez "gave millions around the world an answer to the only question that mattered. Was Amber Heard credible? If the court of public opinion could offer an edict the answer was clearly no." Houghton noted that Heard's reaction to the verdict bemoaned the loss of freedom of speech, "even though she just successfully sued Johnny Depp for defamation. It is these kind of inconsistencies which make Heard’s words difficult to swallow and her testimony videos prone to virality."

Text idea for consideration

With consensus, I'd suggest this as an encyclopaedic text though, like the text above, it's open for development. I'd further simple section title "In relation to #MeToo", we can develop other content if it's notable but maybe that can go with ~"Other reaction"

Main article: MeToo movement § 2022 (Amber Heard and Johnny Depp)

The trial renewed debates on topics relating to domestic violence, including domestic violence against men, as well as other topics such as the #MeToo movement, cancel culture, and women's rights. text as is

Tarana Burke, co-founder of the #MeToo movement, said in a statement: "The way in which #MeToo has been co-opted and manipulated during the Johnny Depp v Amber Heard trial is a toxic catastrophe and one of the biggest defamations of the movement we have ever seen." Burke considered the movement to be very much alive and commented on the many survivors it had helped come forward.

Jennifer Freyd, the psychology professor who coined the term Darvo, stated that "social media was used to undermine Heard’s case and bolster Depp’s". "Darvo" she explains, "refers to a reaction [that alleged] perpetrators of wrongdoing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behaviour" and, with reference to "an overwhelming case for Depp on social media", said that "there has been a lot of Darvo." Leading #MeToo lawyer Debra Katz described the trial as having unique celebrity, "dysfunction" and "craziness", but judged that the Depp v. Heard verdict was less "consequential" to #MeToo compared to Harvey Weinstein losing his appeal for his rape conviction the next day.

Comment Tarana Burke is the more notable figure (at least according to my findings) and her statements from an additional article citation were stronger than had previously been referenced. Jennifer Freyd's comments had been, I think, misrepresented but I hope that something like the above works. Debra Katz is possibly the most significant legal figure on the topic though not widely quoted on Depp Heard.

@RandomCanadian, Starship.paint, 173.56.203.56, TheTimesAreAChanging, TrueHeartSusie3, Gtoffoletto, There-being and X-Editor

GregKaye 23:09, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

I think there should be at least some content defending Depp in the text, since a lot of the coverage is slanted in favour of Heard for some reason. Other than that, the text seems fine to me. X-Editor (talk) 23:16, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. The other way is to get a content on Other Reaction. I think if we keep the rest of the article neutral it will go OK. (I just cut a bit but as there's a main article link perhaps that can pass. GregKaye 23:32, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Just to clarify since I was pinged twice, I am IP editor 173..xx. I created a named account. I stated this elsewhere but of course some may have missed it. There-being (talk) 01:34, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Workings, searches and stuff

25,600 results for Depp Heard trial, 48 results for Depp Heard trial MeToo, 35 results for Depp Heard trial "Tarana Burke", 26 results for, Depp Heard trial "emma thompson", 4 results for Depp Heard trial "Jennifer Freyd", 2,060 results for Depp Heard trial "Camille Vasquez" and 389 results for Depp Heard trial "Elaine Bredehoft"

In news searches on google for June 1-12 we find:

• 25,600 results for Depp Heard trial
• 48 results for Depp Heard trial MeToo
  50 of them are listed below but with 2 results displaying "451: Unavailable due to legal reasons"
• 35 results for Depp Heard trial "Tarana Burke"
• 26 results for Depp Heard trial "emma thompson"
• 4 results for Depp Heard trial "Jennifer Freyd"
• 2,060 results for Depp Heard trial "Camille Vasquez"
• 389 results for Depp Heard trial "Elaine Bredehoft"

On the results page you can only see the result numbers by selecting the text around and under the date and copying and pasting somewhere else

• Comment : I'm sorry but this is simply false and another misrepresentation by Greg, regardless of his intentions. Google search for the terms Depp-Heard and MeToo in fact returns 6.7 million hits. Nor is this really how encylopedic notability is assessed, but if you want to assess notability of sub-topics by google search results, this topic obviously passes any such test by several orders of magnitude. https://www.google.com/search?q=depp-heard+metoo&client=safari&ei=rHCnYuv4NeHNptQPqPOTmAw&ved=0ahUKEwjr_qf49qr4AhXhpokEHaj5BMMQ4dUDCA0&uact=5&oq=depp-heard+metoo&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6BwgAEEcQsANKBAhBGABKBAhGGABQrgJYwylg3DJoAXABeACAAUiIAZYDkgEBOJgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz2There-being (talk) 17:45, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

And a similar non-news Google search on Depp-Heard returns 242 million hits on https://www.google.com/search?q=depp-heard&client=safari&sxsrf=ALiCzsaGP0rI1sdhvE9cEa0u-d9aEiNe3A%3A1655150918282&ei=RpmnYrDnEIadgQbB847QBg&ved=0ahUKEwiwoqLUnav4AhWGTsAKHcG5A2oQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=depp-heard&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECcyBAgjECcyBAgAEEMyCAguEIAEENQCMgQIABBDMgUIABCABDIECAAQQzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgUIABCABDoHCAAQRxCwA0oECEEYAEoECEYYAFCLCliuC2DkE2gCcAF4AIABVYgBmAGSAQEymAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz As of today, your search[1] gets 6.3 million hits. Sorry.

GregKaye 20:22, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

What exactly are you sorry about? That you're wasting everyone's time here? A subtopic with 6+ million hits clearly passes any google search notability test if you insist on using google search results to define notability, which is not a very good idea to begin with. Not only is this question inherently a waste of everyone's time (notice how I'm the only one who even bothered to respond to such garbage), but BY YOUR OWN CRITERION, the topic is notable. Sorry! There-being (talk) 23:32, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Breaking the truth to you that what's been claimed to be a major issue gat relatively little coverage. Even with a lot of pro Heard media, It's of minor note. GregKaye 00:40, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Please be reasonable; the number of sources you have yourself cited already shows that it didn't get "little coverage." It's good to hear that you are trying to be truthful but you seem to have a quite distorted view of "the truth," unfortunately. There-being (talk) 01:42, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Search on news June 1-12, Depp Heard trial MeToo

Depp Heard trial MeToo, news search results for June 1-12

Results were gathered on June 13th. It seems that Google bots have since added to the number of results but here are the 48 results (50 on account of the data google displayed and if you consider the 2 results that displayed "451: Unavailable due to legal reasons")

• Depp Heard trial MeToo

1. The Amber Heard-Johnny Depp trial was an orgy of misogyny
2. ‘Men Always Win’: Survivors ‘Sickened’ by the Amber Heard Verdict
3. The Me Too backlash is here
4. What does the Heard-Depp verdict mean for the #MeToo movement?
5. Depp Trial Exposes Risks to Media in Airing #MeToo Accusations
6. Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard: What the verdict means for the #MeToo movement
7. Emma Thompson says Johnny Depp v Amber Heard trial will not ‘derail’ the MeToo movement
8. Dame Emma Thompson argues Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial ‘isn’t representative’ of MeToo: ‘It’s not going to be derailed’
9. Is the #MeToo Movement Dying?
10. #MeToo Founder Tarana Burke: the Amber Heard Verdict Is the Result of a Broken System
11. New York Appellate Judge Upholds Harvey Weinstein’s Convictions, Rejecting Argument That #MeToo-Era Trial Required ‘Heightened’ Caution
12. Monica Lewinsky comments on Depp-Heard’s defamation trial: 'we are all guilty’
13. What was really at stake in the Depp-Heard trial
14. Depp-Heard verdict sets off debate on #Metoo impact
15. What effect do you think the ruling in the Amber Heard-Johnny Depp case will have on the #MeToo movement?
16. Depp v. Heard and what it means for #MeToo
17. A wider lens on the #MeToo backlash: Who pays for societal change?
18. LISA BLOOM SPEAKS ON DEPP-HEARD FALLOUT ...
19. Johnny Depp victory 'not a setback for women', says famous feminist
20. Rolling Stone piece slamming Depp-Heard verdict prompts Twitter outrage: ‘Sickening’
21. Why #AmberHeardIsALiar was inevitable
22. Who won the Depp-Heard trial? Content creators that went all-in.
23. Will Depp Case Lead to More Lawsuits Against Alleged Abuse Victims?
24. Emma Thompson Says the Me Too Movement ‘Will Not Be Derailed’ by Johnny Depp Trial Verdict
25. DEPP-HEARD TRIAL: ADVOCATES FEAR CHILLING EFFECT ON ACCUSERS
26. Toxic Fan Culture Around Sexual Assault Cases Forces Us to Rethink Our Relationship With Celebrities
27. Why Are Men Using The Amber Heard Verdict As Dating App Banter?
28. Depp v. Heard: Why Depp Won the Battle of Archetypes
29. 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons curious
30. #MeToo Founder Tarana Burke Says Movement Remains 'Very Much Alive' Despite Johnny Depp Verdict
31. How Johnny Depp was victorious against Amber Heard and what it means
32. What Actually Happened To The Men Accused In #MeToo
33. Johnny Depp's Victory Is a Crack in the Moral Armor of Liberal Feminism | Opinion
34. 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons Curiouser still
35. Depp-Heard trial's impact 'potentially catastrophic' for abuse survivors
36. Sprawa Amber Heard i Johnny'ego Deppa a ruch #MeToo. "Która kobieta się teraz zgłosi?"
37. Depp-Heard discourse worries B.C. advocates for domestic violence survivors
38. Social media trial of Amber Heard by Johnny Depp fans devastating for those facing domestic violence
39. ???? demands subscription
40. Dior's Sauvage fragrance sees demand soar post Depp-Heard trial
41. Crisis PR Expert: Amber Heard and Jussie Smollett Are Paying the Price for ‘Shocking Arrogance’ (Guest Blog)
42. Simi Garewal is not happy about Depp’s trial victory
43. Enter, Judge TikTok
44. Depp-Heard trial set a precedent that we should follow
45. Avenatti sentenced to 4 years in prison for defrauding Stormy Daniels
46. Johnny Depp's Lawyers Hint He Might Not Take Amber Heard's Payout
47. Alicia Witt discusses life after cancer treatment, death of parents
48. Hvor er dere? translates to "Where are you?"
49. ‘개방적이고 정직한’: Emma Thompson은 Depp v Heard case가 #MeToo 운동의 ‘대표적이지 않다’고 말한 것에 대해 환영을 받았습니다. translates to "'Open and honest': Emma Thompson was welcomed by what Depp v Heard case said was 'not representative' of the #MeToo movement."
50. #MeToo Disrupted Status Quo, Says Activist Trisha Shetty

Ovinus's playbox

Columnists, legal experts, and observers on social media reacted strongly to the verdict. Legal experts considered the verdict unusual; defamation suits by public figures are rarely successful in the United States, relevant case law being New York Times Co. v. Sullivan and the subsequent Curtis Publishing Co. v. Butts. New York Times reporter Jeremy W. Peters said that, in publishing allegations of abuse, "both ... women and the press assume the considerable risk that comes with antagonizing the rich, powerful and litigious." Psychology professor Jennifer Freyd, who coined the term Darvo, stated that "there has been a lot of Darvo" in this case, with "an overwhelming case for Depp on social media". Dan Novack of The Atlantic argued that the verdict concluded a "fair trial" and was not a markedly different interpretation of the First Amendment, which he says remains "enormously protective of media reporting on credible accusations of sexual abuse. It is telling that Depp did not name the ACLU ... or The Washington Post."

Many columnists, including feminist writers and researchers in intimate partner violence, considered the verdict a backlash against feminism and the #MeToo movement, and predicted a chilling effect on the speech of victims of domestic violence, who might fear being sued for defamation or disregarded without extensive photographic and medical evidence. Time's Eliana Dockterman wrote: "The perfect victim is an innocent. She doesn’t drink or do drugs. As a result, she has a clear memory of her assault ... She’s simplistic. She does not exist." Many supporters of Depp argued the verdict was, in fact, an expansion of #MeToo to male victims of IPV. Others were skeptical of the trial's long-term effect, arguing that the trial's context was too unusual to be indicative of #MeToo's reversal. Leading sexual assault lawyer Debra Katz described the trial as having unique celebrity, "dysfunction" and "craziness", but judged that the Depp v. Heard verdict was less "consequential" to #MeToo compared to Harvey Weinstein's losing his appeal for his rape conviction the next day. Tarana Burke, generally considered the founder of #MeToo, tweeted that "The ‘me too’ movement isn’t dead, this system is dead ... When you get the verdict you want, ‘the movement works’ – when you don’t, it’s dead ... This movement is very much ALIVE."

Polling conducted by Morning Consult found that in an April survey, about 68% of US adults had "very" or "somewhat" favorable views of Depp, a number which had dropped to 56% after the trial. The drop was most pronounced among baby boomers, with a decrease from 59% to 37%, and least among Generation Z respondents, decreasing from 72% to 70%.

Unused

Some commentators, such as legal scholar Mary Anne Franks and Canadian journalist Paula Todd, claimed that jury members might have been (unwittingly or otherwise) exposed to social media support of Depp.

Some commentators went further and considered the verdict a marker of the end of the MeToo and related believe women movement, including some of the movements' detractors.