Talk:Dreadlocks

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"In response to the derogatory history of the term dreadlocks"[edit]

What is this derogatory history? Tombomp (talk/contribs) 22:38, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Really. Obviously you're not black or you'd already know the answer. for a long time Tombomp, people of mostly European descent denigrated and enslaved people descendant of Africa. While doing so, they ridiculed and insulted them, their hair, their languages and their beliefs. While it is not as acceptable to do so these days, it still happens and a large number of black people in the United States, Europe and colonized areas of Africa and the rest of the diaspora cant attest that white people in business environments have told them their natural hair and natural hair styles are unprofessional. Jmanagih (talk) 23:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

User:Jmanagih, your response is well out of line, stop making out all black people know certain things, which YOU then happen to define. There s no specal nformaton only black people, who come form many different cultures, know. If you are talking about the theories of cultural appropriation you might be able to ref that for the article and that would be appropriate added in a blanced neutral way; but tone down the racist generalzatons and rememeber it doesnt matter what race one belongs to, we are all welcome to participate here. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 23:55, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Egyptian history[edit]

Hello, The section on Egyptology seems a little misleading. Egyptians shaved their heads, so the 'locked' wigs in my mind do not represent a tradition of them being dreadlocked, rather a tradition of them wearing wigs. What physical evidence we have shows complex braids. Priests did wear a sidelock braid, while children wore a simple sidelock of hair akin to a ponytail. None of these suggest dreadlock in my mind. For further references, please see here: http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/timelines/topics/hair.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.57.236 (talk) 14:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Original Research on Images[edit]

Unless it can be sourced to WP:RS and WP:V standards, putting in images that the user believes depict locks is a violation of WP:OR. In some of these photos of ancient art, there is no way to tell if what is depicted are braids, ringlets, locks, or just a sculptural technique of depicting hair. Unless there is good research that says this culture wore locks, we can't opine or editorialize on what the sculptures depict. - CorbieV 19:18, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Removed text[edit]

I removed Shine2345's contributions:

"The controversy of whether dreads came from African slaves or Hindu laborers can be debated only with those with no knowledge of the subject. A simple fact check is observing the many areas of the Caribbean where dreadlocks is overwhelming. Example; dreadlocks are not in abundance in Dominican Republic, Cuba nor Haiti, this is because of the cultural and ethnic make up of these areas, originally (of course current times are not in this debate since Caribbean culture is far more mixed than before). Dreadlocks are also not as abundant in the north east Caribbean. Instead it is abundant in 3 major regions; Jamaica, South eastern Caribbean (Trinidad, St Vincent, Barbados), and Guyana/Suriname (again dreadlocks can be found all over South America, and Caribbean, as of late, due to culture spreading and media of course). And these of course are the heaviest concentration of the arrival of east Indian laborers.
African slaves brought to South America, Caribbean, and of course America, did not arrive with the dreadlocks concept. This is apparent by the actual culture of how hair was worn upon arrival in the new world. This is also evident, in that no picture past mid 1800’s containing any African wearing a dreadlock style (approximate time of east Indian labor arrival). Rather Dreadlocks have exploded in the western world in the last 50 years. Since 90% of the root African population in North America is from the Caribbean (something not taught in Most North American classrooms of actual numbers of slaves directly brought from Africa to North America), and since the Caribbean culture has exploded in North America in the last 30 to 70 years, it is obvious the dreadlock culture has come from the Caribbean or its 1st stop was the Caribbean when reaching the west.
Since many people are not educated on the history of the Caribbean including those of Caribbean descent, there is a very unclear understanding of the culture, to which everything is considered West African origin, instead of the obvious mixed culture that presents itself in each island and or region. Due to the different make up of the people who have been part of each regions culture, many are unaware of the actual origin of dreadlocks, and other aspects of culture such as the variety of patois in the Caribbean. Therefore, many, especially of Jamaican origin are unaware, or do not accept how certain parts of the culture have found their way in the fabric of the culture. This is apparent by how Jamaican culture refers to the non African population of Jamaica as Jamaican Indian, or Spanish Jamaican, or Chinese Jamaican. While those in the ethnic group themselves consider themselves Jamaican before bothering looking at their forefather region of disbursement. On the other hand, Trinidad and Tobago citizens refer to themselves as Trinis 1st, and of course will clarify if mixed or not if needed. That is the difference in the strength or mindset of the culture.

With the widespread arrival of indentured laborers into the Caribbean in the mid 1800’s, the style of dread locks was born. This style was worn by those who followed a Sahdus or “hill coolie” lifestyle. Sahdus are considered the holy men of India (also those responsible for the Marijuana explosion). Many of indentured laborers from India are of aboriginal decent, and came from villages that mirrored those of aboriginal decent in South Africa, and Madagascar. This is apparent all throughout India, in all regions, and those who wear the style come from all backgrounds of genetics, from Negritos, Caucasoid, monagloid, and or course the mix of all 3, the average East Indian person. Since many east Indians in the western world have either had their history lost or themselves are preoccupied by western culture, they themselves are not aware of the roots of the Indian culture. The lifestyle or culture of Sahdus is the root of the Rasta movement. As the concept of being vegetarian, and wearing the hair in a way that one does not care how society views you are apparent. Both concepts believe that any creature that bleeds is a creation of the earth or god and is a sin. Smoking ganja is one of the most important trait to the lifestyle, as it is considered an herb from mother earth, and can take the mind to levels of supernatural being, if used correctively. They heavy influence of the East Indian laborers is overwhelmingly obvious in certain parts of the Caribbean (Jamaica, Guyana, Suriname, south east Caribbean; Trinidad, Barbados, st Vincent). The actual dialect of loan words from Hindi and west African dialect, the numerous curry and spiced dishes, and marijuana explosion (ganja in Jamaica, for the Ganges holy river, where the crop was taken to the Caribbean by Sahdus), and dreadlocks and facial hair. Ganja especially going hand in hand with the dreadlock culture in India, as it is a staple and one of the most popular crops all throughout India. Other aspects of Indian influence in the Caribbean would of course be the dance, music, infused in the music and dance style with the West African styles combined into one. Many fruits have also been transported from India to the Caribbean, such as sapodilla, and sweetsop or cherimoya. However there are other indigenous versions of sweetsop to the Caribbean. "

Over 36,000 Indians were taken to Jamaica as indentured workers between 1845 and 1917, with around two thirds of them remaining on the island. The demand for their labour came after the end of slavery in 1830 and the failure to attract workers from Europe.

The Indian workers tended their own gardens after the work on the plantations was done to supplement their diet. Indian workers, in search of relaxation, also introduced marijuana and the chillum pipe, to Jamaica. Hindu festivals such as Diwali were celebrated although many became Christians over time. Gradually workers left the plantations for Kingston and took jobs that better utilised their existing, and newly learned skills. The Indian community adopted English as their first language and became jewellers, fishermen, barbers and shopkeepers.

Indians have made many contributions to Jamaican culture. Indian jewellery, in the form of intricately wrought gold bangles, are common on Jamaica, with their manufacture and sale going back to the 1860s. Indians established the island's first successful rice mill in the 1890s and dominated the island's vegetable production until the late 1940s.

Forms of Indian dress were adopted by some Jamaicans and can be seen in Jonkonnu processions. Many Christian African-Jamaicans participate alongside Indian-Jamaicans in the Indian inspired cultural celebrations of (Shia Muslims) Hosay and (Hindu) Divali. In the past, every plantation in each parish celebrated Hosay while today it has been rebranded an Indian carnival and is perhaps most well known in Clarendon where it is celebrated each August. Divali, a Hindu festival linked with the reaping of grain, the return of Prince Rama after 14 years in exile, and the victory of good over evil, is celebrated late October to early November on the darkest night of the year. Houses are cleaned and brightly lit and everyone is in high spirits.

Approximately 61,500 Indians live in Jamaica today, maintaining their own cultural organizations and roots but assimilated into the wider community. Traditional Indian foods such as curry goat and roti have become part of the national cuisine and are now seen as 'Jamaican'. Alongside Hinduism & Sufi Islam, the smoking of cannabis (Ganja) was introduced to Jamaica from India. The influence of the Caste system has largely atrophied and arranged marriages are no longer common.

Descendants of the immigrant workers have influenced the fields of farming, medicine, politics and even horse-racing. See Indo-Jamaican

http://www.akincana.net/multimedia/photo/old_india/Old%20India%2051.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.111.179.1 (talk) 04:14, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

so why did you remove this?

Jmanagih (talk) 23:39, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Origins of dreadlocks/racial bias[edit]

I'm commenting on what is written below this paragraph. Just to say that it is not a "bias" when something is factually evident. Please see the newish documentary film "Dreadlocks Story". It's absolutely true that Hinduism, especially the worship of Siva, who wore dreads and smoked ganja out of a chillum, spawned Rastafarianism. However, it developed as an Afrocentric religion and all Eastern traces were painted over in favor of Biblically-based "lost tribe" rhetoric. It is just as racist for Afrocentricists to claim that everyone who shows a non-African origin for something they'd like to claim, is themselves a racist. It's racist to claim credit for things done by other races. Also racists can be any race, it's not an exclusive pale-face thing. Anyway, here is a link to an excellently researched thesis paper on the subject. I actually never use Wikipedia because of exactly this kind of nonsense, and the difficulty in retaining simple truth in the age of identity politics, so I'm not even sure how I ended up on this page while researching an article on cannabis and yoga, but since I did. Here's my two cents. I'm sure I broke all the rules. Don't care. Just read the paper linked below please. All the best, Diana Trimble: http://kb.osu.edu/dspace/handle/1811/28443 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dianarama66 (talkcontribs) 16:18, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

The article seems very biased with a distinct emphasis on Indian immigrants to the Caribbean. While, it's true that they have had an influence on the culture of Jamaica in a number of ways, as has every other group that immigrated to Jamaica, something is missing here.

  • Number one: dreadlocks is a term that came out of the culture developed by the maroon communities in the Jamaican hill country.
  • Number two: true enough the Indian devotees of Shiva do grow their hair in locks that resemble dreadlocks, but they are called something else. That was made clear in the article.
  • Number three: dreadlocks have been introduced to the world not by devotees of Shiva, but by Reggae musicians that claim Rastafari as their spiritual leader, like Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Bunny Wailer, etc., etc.
  • Number four: I have yet to hear, see or become aware of any Jamaican Indian reggae musicians with dreadlocks.
  • Number five: There's little to no mention or pictorial evidence, which is readily available, of the influence of the Kenyan, "dreadlock" wearing, freedom fighters of the 1950's - 60's on the Rastafari community of Jamaica. Two prime examples of this are Field Marshalls Dedan Kimathi and Musa Mwariama, who both wore their hair in this manner. The obvious connection between them and Nybinghi who was well known in East Africa from Southern Kenya to Zimbabwe would seem to be obvious.
  • Number six: If the whole Indian connection is to be believed in Jamaica, then wouldn't it also be true in other British colonies where significant numbers of Indians were deposited as indentured servants? Where is the evidence of this connection in the present?
  • Number seven: there was also a comment about there not being any connection between the hairstyles of the Egyptians and that of the Rastas. However, that is contradictory to what I've learned about hats and headdresses from around the world, which I have found often derive from a hairstyle. One clear example comes to mind when thinking of the Khepresh or Blue Crown of the pharaohs of Egypt and the amasunzu hairstyle of the various people's native to the area south of Lake Victoria. The same comparison can be made between the isicholo worn by the Mangbetu of Central East Africa and the White and Red Crowns of Egypt. Last, but not least there's a distinct similarity between the "dreadlocked" hair of the Nubian warriors that were one of Egypt's primary opponents on the battlefield and the citizens of Egypt.
  • Bulleted list item

The fact that none of this comes up in this article is troubling indeed. How this article passes for scholarly work is beyond me, when it has so many basic major discrepancies, is beyond me. Realizing what I saw in the talk section on the Indian, so-called, dreadlock connection was excised, I have no qualms with that decision. What does bother me is that the rest of the article has been allowed to stand with only 1 picture of some "store bought" dreadlocks and not one picture of a person of African descent wearing dreadlocks, when useable pictures abound of descendants of Africa with dreadlocked hair, of the natural variety. Kkhemet (talk)

This article is extremely bias Jmanagih (talk) 23:38, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Not sure why you are so troubled, we are lucky to have an article here at all. If you can find sources edit the article but dont just stand on the sidelines makng bias claims without making edits. Indeed you havent edited the article at all. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 00:03, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
I agree. Let's work together to make this a better article. AD64 (talk) 20:05, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

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Section on Judaism and Christianity[edit]

I don't want to get into an edit war on this one, but this entire section appears to be original research. The entire section on the Nazirite vow is only sourced to verses from the Bible, with no reliable secondary source to verify the interpretation. It appears someone has gone to a primary source (in this case the Bible) and pulled out their own interpretation without giving any third-party support for that interpretation - which would be the essence of "original research."

The only secondary source that's cited is used to support the statement that "According to the biblical account, Samson was given supernatural strength by God in order to combat his enemies and perform heroic feats." That's fine as far as it goes, but has nothing to do with dreadlocks.

Don't get me wrong - this may all be absolutely correct. But, and this is a big "but," there isn't any sourcing for it.

In particular, part of the Nazirite vow was that you didn't cut your hair. But no connection is made between that simple fact, and something that would be recognized as a "dreadlock." EastTN (talk) 15:34, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Dreadlocks are actually a World Wide phenomena[edit]

There seems to be a badly mistaken and false assumption that platted, twisted or braided hair is something that originated in Sub Saharan Africa or the Caribbean, and/or is specific to people of Sub Saharan African heritage, or Black People. In fact, it is historically, ethnically, culturally and geographically worldwide.

In actuality, the very earliest historical depictions in art of such hair styles come from Caucasoid type peoples in the Middle East, Asia Minor, Aegean and North Africa, rather than Sub Saharan Africa. These styles were also common in the Caucasus, Western Europe, Southern Europe, the British Isles, Scandinavia, the Indian Sub-Continent, Australasia and the Far East in past times, as well as Africa of course.

During the Bronze Age and Iron Age many peoples in the Near East, Asia Minor, Caucasus, East Mediterranean and North Africa such as the Sumerians, Elamites, Ancient Egyptians, Ancient Greeks, Akkadians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Minoans, Hyksos, Hittites, Amorites, Mitanni, Hattians, Hurrians, Arameans, Eblaites, Israelites, Phrygians, Lydians, Persians, Medes, Parthians, Chaldeans, Armenians, Georgians, Cilicians and Canaanites/Phoenicians/Carthaginians are depicted in art with braided or platted hair and beards. These practices only died out among the Assyrians and Mandeans of Mesopotamia in the early 19th century for example.

The term Dreadlocks is used usually in reference to Rastafarians, who are only one of many peoples and cultures to have sported this general type of hairstyle, and one of the most recent, dating only to the 1930's. Other cultures had and have different names for varying forms of platted, braided or twisted hair styles.

So, in short, there is no race element to the subject, or shouldn't be anyway! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.25.101 (talk) 23:19, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Cultural appropriation[edit]

There is currently a debate going on in the United States over cultural appropriation, which to no small measure has been sparked by reactions to persons of European descent wearing dreadlocks. Would the addition of a section on this topic be appropriate? Unschool 00:38, 10 April 2017 (UTC)