Talk:Drop C tuning

This article was nominated for deletion on 8 November 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

Too Many Artists

There are too many artists in the article... we should show only 5-10 for an example... not 50 (or whatever) like now... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.113.114.7 (talk) 20:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Says who? So, on the list of countries in the world, we should only list 5 or 10 as an example? That's stupid. 65.189.210.173 (talk) 10:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also don't see how narrowing it down to 5-10 would be beneficial. What about removing the six red linked bands? nailPuppy (talk) 01:41, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the list is pretty useless - by being so large, it seems to imply that it is somehow vaguely comprehensive, while it is nowhere near. Also, many MANY of the bands/songs listed are in different definitions of Drop C (as discussed in the article) - it's not all that interesting to list them all if which one is used is not specified. Luminifer (talk) 15:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've been watching this page, and there's a lot of energy going into adding artists to that list - despite the fact that it's not clear _which_ definition of the tuning any of those artists use, and that it's far too large to be useful, and too small to be comprehensive. It's somewhat like trying to list sample guitarists in the 'guitarist' article, no? I'd suggest either removing it entirely, or having a few easy-to-find 'famous' 'notable' samples to illustrate what it sounds like. Luminifer (talk) 06:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to remove the artists section unless someone objects - it's really taking up a lot of peoples' time and adds no value. It would be useful if it had samples of what Drop C tuning sounded like, but as it is it's just a random sampling of everyones' favorite bands who may or may not use one of the three Drop C tunings. Luminifer (talk) 05:52, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We need to get a list back- that was pretty much the most useful part of the page. Can't it just be stated that drop C is technically CADGBE, but in modern guitar parlance drop C universally refers to CGCFAD? Also, in what universe does drop C have 'anything' to do with CFA#D#GC tuning? That tuning is always called C standard or E standard down two steps. The list needs to come back, and it needs to be checked so it only includes bands that are using CGCFAD. This can be checked by looking at tablature from www.ultimate-guitar.com

Thanks. The list gives me a chance to hear the tuning in action. I don't have access to all of the artists, so it's good to be able to find one or two that I do have access to. If the list were any shorter, I'd have fewer options. 65.92.118.124 (talk) 04:58, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

there was discussion here before but not lots and now people are reverting on the page even though it was discussed. so we need outside opinions. should the list of 'artists who use drop c tuning' be in the article. if so should it only be ones with citations. Bouket (talk) 23:56, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the list, cited and uncited. Certainly there is plenty of interest in which notable artists use Drop C, and it is not outrageously broad. As to requiring citations, there will be three categories: (1) solid WP:RS sourcing can be found; (2) solid RS sourcing not so easy find, but loads of guitar tab sites and forum discussions discussing ______'s use of Drop C; (3) not much evidence of any sort to be found. I would keep those in #1 and #2, whether already cited in the article or not. Bands in category #3, and non-notable bands, should be removed. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 02:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- doesnt that voilate WP:NOTDIRECTORY Wikipedia articles are not: Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as (but not limited to) quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are famous because they are associated with or significantly contribute to the list topic. Bouket (talk) 07:06, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep a short list of cited notable people - We don't need every artists who drops to C. Just give the most notable people out of the bunch. (e.g. the best known artists, the best known for drop C, anyone who popularized drop C ). Citations are better.Gsonnenf (talk) 21:18, 16 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed

First it says that drop C is CGCFAD (which is false), then it corrects itself saying that it really is CADGBE (which is correct), then we go to the "usage" part of the article which again describes CGCFAD, and finally it gives a list of artists which I would assume does not tune in drop C, but instead drop D tuned down one whole step.

I removed the last line of the opening paragraph and changed it so that it clarifies that what is referred to as "drop C" in this article is really drop D tuned down one whole step, but in my opinion the whole article is wrong and should be either rewritten or deleted entirely. It's embarrassing to have an article here on Wikipedia where we actually know it is false, yet it is still up. I would suggest that if anything, parts of it could be merged into the article on drop D tuning. Lars Holm (talk) 17:25, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...The term Drop C is used for tuning the guitar down one whole step, then tuning the Low D down one step further.. It's just way easier to say "Drop C" in conversation, although this may lead some to believe that the tuning is standard with the low E tuned down to C (not a very usable tuning).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.198.42.180 (talk) 03:38, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here here to the above. An example if you will: Drop D inherently implies two things. Most people only think of notes in and of themselves while the whole nomenclature for guitar tunings is not note basted but interval based. Its not that Drop D tuning is only the lowest string of a standard tuned guitar, tuned down a whole step. Its that insdead of being 5 half steps lower than the string above it, it is 7 half steps lower. Its all relative. So Drop C tuning is not a standard tuning with the E string dropped 2 whole steps. That would be silly. It is the lowest string tuned to a C with the string above being 7 half steps higher, the one above a 5th higher, etc. Drop C is CGCFAD. Nuff said.

The entire concept of "Drop C" is ridiculous. Drop C IS IN FACT "CADGBE." Any dropped tuning is just that; the low string "dropped." The tuning that we all know as Drop C, CGCFAD, is D standard with a dropped C, or, Dropped D tuned down a step. This is another case of something that's so commonly misunderstood that it becomes the proper term.

Furthermore, is it really necessary to make special note of all the times a band uses a tuning other than "Drop C?" For example, if System of a Down decides to use Db from now on, that's now unrelated to this article.65.189.210.173 (talk) 06:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

hay guys, the sond thunderhorse by dethklok is played in full C standard tuning, not drop c...or drop d tuned down one step or w/e. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.230.80 (talk) 00:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, and I removed it, but, for future reference, it's a lot less work to edit something like that yourself instead of posting here about it and waiting for someone else to do it. No big deal, it's just more productive.65.189.210.173 (talk) 06:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If what you say about drop c is correct then in Steve vai's Bad Horsie the bass guitar is only tuned to C on the E string, correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.81.236.238 (talk) 19:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No. As I clearly stated, the term "drop C" has been so misused that it's been completely bastardized into something else. Somehow, it went from being CEADBE to CGCFAD. I don't know, I don't know when. In guitar lingo, yes, CGCFAD is "drop C." It's just flat-out wrong to call it that. 65.189.210.173 (talk) 10:08, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited the opening paragraph to clarify the difference between the common use of the term (ie, drop d tuned down one tone) and the literal meaning of the term (standard tuning with the low E string dropped to C). Hopefully this clears up the dispute; I think the fact that the term's common usage differs from its actual meaning deserves to go in the article itself and so make the whole situation clear to the reader. - SoulSkorpion (talk) 05:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I cleaned up the first paragraph - what does everyone think? I'm daunted by the rest of the article right now :)...Luminifer (talk) 14:23, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree that the band list seems unnecessary - mostly, my problem with it is that these tunings are so common that the list will always be incomplete, and that by being so large, someone who doesn't know about this may think it's fairly complete.Luminifer (talk) 14:23, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If the band list is kept (and I don't really think it should - perhaps some examples), it should be separated into the different types of tunings referred to as Drop C.

Regardless, most people interpret the tuning as CGCFAD. Look at the best known bands who use it; Metal band System of a Down and emo-metal band Atreyu both use CGCFAD tuning. The article is fine, don't start a dispute. And it should refer to the best known tuning. Reword the introduction - it looks like it was written by a thirteen-year-old. Anonymous (talk) 17:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.144.176 (talk) [reply]

An encyclopedia should be thorough, no? (as in, including all tunings that the phrase could refer to) Luminifer (talk) 14:23, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article is misleading. If you google search "CADGBE" and "CGCFAD", CGCFAD gets over 20 times more hits. If noone objects, I'm going to move the CGCFAD tuning to the top of the three (for clarity), and add that it's the most likely tuning meant by the phrase "Drop C". EarthStage (talk) 20:10, 14 April 2009 (UTC)EarthStage[reply]

This is stupid. Did anyone notice how this argument hasn't happened on ANY other talk page for a drop tuning, despite the fact that, according to some people here, The pages are incorrect. I'm just glad noone argues here anymore. Kezian Avenger 21:03, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is happening. Again. This is absolutely ridiculous... drop C is CGCFAD except for on the fringe. If Drop Db is Db Ab Db Gb Bb Eb then Drop C is CGCFAD. It's a tautology of the guitar world. This is not on any other page regarding tuning and I'm reverting these edits. Find sources to the contrary if you're hellbent on it; somehow I think Guitar World and other such references are more notable than "The Idiot's Guide to Guitar." --MoJiggity (talk) 20:10, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

all of those references refer to rock and heavy metal music. in folk and classical drop c means something different than just in modern heavy metal. Bouket (talk) 08:15, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That being the case why is that information on the talk page and not in the article with a citation? CGCFAD is more common as Drop C than CADGBE, de-facto, as somebody said above. Just see how many Google searches each one yields. Authoritative sources are cited when discussing it as such. Please provide us with one of your own.--MoJiggity (talk) 16:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

there are references for the other tunings there already. heavy metal is more popular than folk so of course the heavy metal tuning gets more hits. if you cant find a source saying that CGCFAD is more popular than CADFBE then saying its more popular counts as original research. Bouket (talk) 16:49, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

also why are you using language like 'please provide us' as if youre more part of wikipedia than i am. your account is brand new looks like Bouket (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:53, 29 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]

In retrospect what I wrote seems a bit offensive. What I meant to say is that given the master article on Guitar tunings and my personal experience I believe CGCFAD to be more common, although as you noted this is original research. I'll see if I can find one way or another online what "truth" is.--MoJiggity (talk) 01:03, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

i just looked at Guitar tunings its a mess. do you understand how drop c should literally just mean that you drop the c and that the heavy metal tuning was originally incorrectly called that but the name has caught on? unfortunately i dont know a source to explain that. the article used to say that but it got removed because its unsourced lol Bouket (talk) 18:26, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To me that's a case of how guitar vibrato units are now called tremolos erroneously. Although it's not semantically correct (I noted this when I made my first edit but it got reverted) it is the verifiable consensus among guitar players. MoJiggity (talk) 21:36, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

yeah i know what you mean. but if everyone thinks the world is flat that doesnt mean its flat by consensus lol. we need sources i guess. Bouket (talk) 23:02, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also.

Why is the 'F' word edited out in the title 'Dressed to Fuck?' No other articles have the profanity edited out, and I can't fix it because, apparently, typing the word "fuck" on here will be vandalism 100% of the time. 65.189.210.173 (talk) 10:11, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That wasn't actually an editor that reverted your edit for possible vulgarity, it was a bot (one of the larger ones on Wikipedia). You could have reported it as a False Positive. I've changed the name to "Dressed to Fuck" as it should be, hopefully it will stay that way now. nailPuppy (talk) 06:08, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Sword

Isn't Freya in C standard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.189.210.173 (talk) 04:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC) Iron Man is not in Drop C,(standard tuning). Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is detuned to C#, which is not a drop tuning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.152.117 (talk) 22:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now that someone has confirmed it, I'll remove this. Really, all the bands should be removed - I'm sure most of them are incorrect. Luminifer (talk) 01:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sample

Maybe someone with know-how and resources should upload a sample of what (each variant of) Drop C sounds like? Luminifer (talk) 14:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

i removed all that crap

nonsense —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.170.59.139 (talk) 22:07, 9 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merge?

This article, Drop D tuning, and any other similar articles should be merged into a single article (Drop tuning?). There's no way Drop C on its own merits an entire article. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:10, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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List of bands

This article has become one large WP:LISTCRUFT of largely unsourced band names. Out of around 280 mentions, I could only count 28 as being sourced. Beside that, this article is not called List of Bands who have used Drop C tuning and this list adds absolutely nothing to the reader's understanding of what it is. Unless the band uses this this tuning on all their songs, the reader has no idea which songs it features on, or what it sounds like.

This problem has been noted above, 13 years ago, and it's clear that what was said then has been ignored and simply got worse. It was also restored in April as "A very well researched topic". I would argue that original research does not belong here, and nothing in the article suggests it is very well done.

So I am going to remove all entries without sources and suggest that only artists who are specifically noted, with sources, as being common users of this tuning should be mentioned, as examples only. We do not need to attempt an all inclusive list. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 13:28, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]