Talk:Dublin Fingal (Dáil constituency)

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Reuse of Candidate Photographs

Spleodrach BrownHairedGirl

In recent years in Ireland candidate photos have appear on the ballot paper.

Both the Dublin and Cork returning officers have an identical website layout. (limerick is basic as is waterford and others are not there)

https://corkcityreturningofficer.com/ https://dublincountyreturningofficer.com/

https://waterfordreturningofficer.com/

Dublin and Cork then publish the list of candidates in the form of a pseudo ballot paper with photos. EG.

https://dublincountyreturningofficer.com/index.php/8-general-information/92-nominated-candidates-2020-dublin-fingal

I would ask for your quick thoughts on whether, in your opinions, you would consider these photos to be in the public domain, and therefore reusable on the Wikipedia.

The sites are "copyrighted" to the respective returning officers at bottom. It seems likely that _in time_ all returning officers will adopt the site layout obtaining in Cork and Dublin right now. Wikimucker (talk) 15:04, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

@Wikimucker: my guess is "probably PD", but I pay little attention to images, so that is only a guess from someone who has not examined the nuances.

I strongly recommend that you ask at WP:Media copyright questions. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:11, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

My guess is PD but I cannot find (EG) a nomination form where a transfer of rights is explicit. The legal basis for their appearing on ballot papers is this SI.

> http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2002/si/16/made/en/print

The SI does not provide for their publication save 'on paper', a website is not paper.

However a Pseudo Ballot Paper is NOT a Ballot Paper per that SI and the 2 returning officers in question seem to think that the photographs are fully reusable on their own websites by dint of their possessing them. Wikimucker (talk) 15:25, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

@Wikimucker: I really do recommend asking at WP:Media copyright questions. It would be a great pity for you to spend a lot of time using those photos only to find that they were all deleted and you get a rap on the knuckles. Your time and morale is more valuable than that. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:45, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

I also found

http://wicklowreturningofficer.com/ same as Dublin and Cork

https://laoisreturningofficer.com/index.php/general-election-2020/3-nominations same as Dublin and Cork

https://meathreturningofficer.com/ more like Limerick and Waterford, no photos

http://clarereturningofficer.com/index.php/18-information-for-candidates like Limerick Waterford, no photos.

https://donegalreturningofficer.com/ no photos

@ElectionHack2019: you are also active on the constituency pages, see the above FYI. I don't think a non party is notable either, even if Gemma and John Waters do and if they are not prepared to register it. Wikimucker (talk) 17:04, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

I very much doubt they are PD, if you add these images to Commons, you will be asked to prove they have been published under Create Commons Licence allowing them to be PD. Ask BHG said, ask at WP:Media copyright questions, as they will know for sure. Spleodrach (talk) 20:07, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

I note that journal.ie has a constituency piece reusing these photos > https://www.thejournal.ie/election-2020/constituency/56/ with party emblems edited in and RTE also has all of them on its election coverage site. I will try contacting a returning officer directly in the morning to see what they might have to say on the reuse/ownership issue and whether a cc-by notice could be furnished. Wikimucker (talk) 12:37, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Personally, I would be against adding candidates photos even if they were PD. It's clutter and does not add much to the article. Spleodrach (talk) 12:44, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

@ElectionHack2019:@Spleodrach:@BrownHairedGirl: I spoke to a returning officer who said they are very much interested in clarifying reuse terms and adding a CC-BY notice to their current copyright notice after the election and for past and future elections. But they are too busy now and Spleodrachs why bother point is valid too.

On another matter, have any of you ever contacted Michael Marsh from Trinity (retired) about his poll and opinion poll databases going back to the 1990s??? He has allowed data reuse but not on CC-BY terms see > https://www.tcd.ie/Political_Science/IOPA/index.php and https://www.tcd.ie/Political_Science/people/michael_marsh/index.php .

Sometimes a data source like this is quite happy to help if some standard NB fields and Proper citations are pre agreed and always used when the data is relied upon in the likes of the wiki. Wikimucker (talk) 13:37, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I haven't made any such contacts. Back in 2007ish, I had some correspondnece with the maiantiners of the Oirecahtas database of members, and guided them to some corrections. And I got some help forfrom Niall Blaney TD on unravelling his family tree. But that's all. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:05, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

@BrownHairedGirl: For Blaney or From Blaney?? :) . I'll ping Michael Marsh to see what happens, if he is amenable to any particular data reuse on the wiki I'll ping you again at the end to mail him to confirm the arrangement so we both know what is agreed/usable/correct form of referencing of same etc. He also has a serial poll of polls kept which could be of some use as nobody else has one of those that I know of. Wikimucker (talk) 17:31, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Ooops. From. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:19, 28 January 2020 (UTC)