|WikiProject Languages||(Rated Start-class)|
- 1 Untitled
- 2 "I fok horses"
- 3 Steenkolenengels
- 4 SOV / SVO
- 5 Err
- 6 J and Y
- 7 A possible source for some of this, and more
- 8 Picture
- 9 Funny, but not sufficiently convincing
- 10 Overtranslation
- 11 Missing prepositions Dunglish
- 12 Bias to the Netherlands
- 13 "Change here"
- 14 treatment of pronunciation is missing
- 15 Anecdotes & Worst-Kaas-scenario warning
- 16 Examples should be removed
- 17 Pseudo-anglicism
- 18 Solicit?
- 19 File:Dunglish.jpg Nominated for Deletion
I have no idea how to do this, but I would like to add a reference to the page. -> Burrough-Boenisch, J.: Righting English that's gone Dutch (2nd edition). (http://www.kemperconseil.nl/TaalkundeBoeken/RightingEnglish.html) Michael Beijer (talk) 19:32, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
This has become a fun article!
I removed the part about "throwing the baby away with the washwater"; while a wrong translation, this proverb exists in English as throwing out the baby with the bath water, so it's not nearly as bad as it sounds, and you won't be misunderstood. JRM · Talk 19:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
There comes the monkey out of the sleeve (In Dutch: Daar komt de aap uit de mouw) is also very Dunglish. The meaning of this saying is something like 'The hidden trick is finally exposed'.
- Yes, and likewise that kite won't fly ("die vlieger gaat niet op"), now breaks my wooden shoe ("nou breekt mijn klomp") and other literally translated idioms, but in general none of those belong in the article unless they have been prominently used. Over-literal translation is an endless source of amusement and many examples can be constructed, but we shouldn't. JRM · Talk 17:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
- Similar, I want to talk to you under four eyes ("Ik wil je onder vier ogen spreken"). Ahv 21:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
"I fok horses"
I removed the part about Gerbrandy saying "I fok horses" to Churchill, as I can't find any definitive source for it. Other sources claim the Grebrandy did say "Goodbye" when he was introduced to Churchill, but it was Joseph Luns that claimed to "fok horses" to John F Kennedy, to which JFK replied "Pardon?" and Luns enthusiastically said "Ja, inderdaad, Paarden!" ("Yes, exactly, horses!"). However I can only find one source for either story, so I removed the paragraph. risk 20:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
- The 'fok horses' joke is a Dutch classic.
- It has been atributed to almost anyone.
- I don't think it's of any use in an english language encyclopedia. (Only Dutch speakers immediately get the joke, and we all knew it anyway.)
- As far as I remember, Gerbrandy's "Goodbye" is genuine. (I find that plausible, cause it's not even remotely funny.)
- On a different note: I (a Dutchman) was talking to an Englishman tonight about "next Friday". It took half an hour before he understood that I meant this Friday. (Not worth including either, I guess, but maybe some Dutchman reading this might learn from my mistake.) ('next Friday' is kennelijk niet aanstaande vrijdag maar vrijdag-over-een-week.) Bart van der Pligt 03:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Similar: I (a Dutchman) invite an Englishman for a meeting at "half six". Following dutch grammar I expect the meeting to start at 5:30 (half zes) but the Englishman will arrive at 6:30 (half six, short for half-past-six), an hour later ! Ahv 21:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The information identifying Dunglish as "coal English" occurs twice in the article so I am editing it. -- House of Scandal 10:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
SOV / SVO
Dutch is SOV in sentences with modal auxiliary verbs, but the examples given are not due to that reason, but due to English' peculiar usage of writing periphrastic sentences with the verb "do" (a complex usage that globally is rather rare. I attempt to rewrite...) 惑乱 分からん 12:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
"They have realised the building project." is valid english.
J and Y
Don't really know how to put this in the article, my English isn't that good ^^ Maybe somebody else will?? In Dutch the J is pronounced like the Y is pronounced in English. Dunglish speaking Dutchmen will probably say yoke instead of joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kbarends (talk • contribs) 12:37, August 26, 2007 (UTC)
- The mistake is common in Scandinavia, where the English J-sound isn't found in native words. I guess it's possible it exists in the Dutch-speaking area, too, but pronunciation mistakes don't primarily stem from spelling/ortography. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 12:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
A possible source for some of this, and more
The same blog, but now giving the date of the referenced book: - "I always get my sin", Maarten H.Rijkens 2005
One might add that the picture is also an example of reverse influence of English on Dutch: the so-called English disease (Engelse ziekte). This alludes to the tendency to separate word parts in a composed noun. 'Paardenuitdeelplaats' should be one word in Dutch.--Apollonius (talk) 12:36, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Funny, but not sufficiently convincing
While in itself a funny page, I find it impossible to believe that all examples provided really occur frequently, if at all. This holds especially for the "other examples" under "common errors". I know the Dutch will at times come up with the most horrible language imaginable, but do they really say "they hardly worked" for "they've been working hard"? I've certainly never heard anyone say this. Also, it is hard to ascertain that some of the examples (e.g., "let but sit"), are not in fact "jokular reverse use". For this reason, I think a "This section does not cite any references or sources" banner should be added to "Common errors". I feel that *all* examples should eventually (not "eventueel" but "uiteindelijk") be provided with references. I actually feel that other sections could be similarly improved, for example, from where exactly are the "Worst Teacher Award" examples taken?
I don't think the use of 'apartment' instead of 'flat' is an example of overtranslation at all. In fact, 'appartement' means an apartment or a flat in Dutch, whereas Dutch 'flat' generally means a block of flats. If anything, 'apartment' is a case of 'undertranslation'.
Missing prepositions Dunglish
One of the most common features of written Dunglish is the omission of the word of from titles and headings (writing Responsibilities cardholder instead of Responsibilities of cardholder or Cardholder responsibilities), but is there a good reference for this? --Silvonen (talk) 12:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Bias to the Netherlands
I think this article only encompasses Northen Dutch speakers (= residents of the Netherlands). Though Flanders is mentioned in the introduction, all of the examples are clearly Northern Dutch. E.g. "Are you taking me in the mailing?" is something a Fleming would never say (since "in de maling nemen" is a Northern Dutch expression). Instead, a literal translation from Flemish Dutch to English would be "Are you laughing with me?"("Ben je met mij aan het lachen?"), which is translated quite correctly if I'm not mistaken.
Also, the "jokular reverse part" is not Flemish Dutch at all. Flemish Dutch examples would be "I will make myself from side." or "English with hair on the teeth". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:29, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I removed the part on "passengers can change here" seeing as that's perfectly correct in English.
treatment of pronunciation is missing
A treatment of pronunciation is missing. Also, I think that this article focuses on people with low or mediocre knowledge of English, while many Dutch have good or even excellent knowledge of English. Andries (talk) 08:12, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Anecdotes & Worst-Kaas-scenario warning
I don't think there is a Wikipedia policy like WP:ANECDOTE but A professor, specialized in agricultural history, stressed the importance of "weed" production in 20th century Holland on an international symposium - although his slides indicated that he was referring to "wheat". would certainly qualify (I even suspect it to be Dunglish itself, shouldn't it be "at" instead of "on"?) and should be deleted. I'll be bold.
"Worst-kaas scenario" actually is used (according to Google) as a very very poor joke (probably in circles infected by civil servants) where I originally thought it was made up to make an interestingly sounding edit to this article. So I will not be bold there but I would recommend a template warning that Dutch people using this expression as a real joke should be avoided at all costs (recommending further measures probably wouldn't be legal under both US and Dutch law). Joepnl (talk) 04:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Examples should be removed
I doubt the notability of examples like "You have to screw the hookers on the wall." (hookers/hooks on/to). Actually, I don't see the use of the examples at all, they are at most jokes for Dutch people reading this article but don't add any real information to it. Joepnl (talk) 04:50, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Why is there no list of commonly used Dunglish words (like beamer, oldtimer, etc.)? The Denglisch page has lots of examples, while this page doesn't have any reference to them 184.108.40.206 (talk) 16:50, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, that's a good idea. Denglish words like showmaster, smoking, slip, streetworker all apply. Joepnl (talk) 00:29, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
- Denglish refers to English loanwords in German. This page claims (without reference, I might add) Dunglish refers to English as spoken poorly by native Dutch speakers. In other words Dunglish is not to Dutch as Denglish is to German. English loanwords in Dutch have nothing to do with Dunglish. (unless they were incorrectly used by the Dutch when speaking English) 220.127.116.11 (talk) 14:18, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
"The Dutch verb solliciteren means to apply for a job, which can lead to an embarrassing situation if someone claims that they have come to solicit." This seems questionable, in Australian and I assume British English to solicit just means to ask for something. Eg. to solicit a response. A solicitor is a lawyer. Eg Solicitor General. Ozdaren (talk) 06:50, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
File:Dunglish.jpg Nominated for Deletion
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