Talk:Edgewater Beach Hotel

confusing: hotel article with photo of the apartments

I find it very confusing to have a photo and info box for the Edgewater Apartments, a totally separate building from the Edgewater Beach Hotel when the article is about the hotel, now demolished. Is there any photo of the Hotel that could be placed above an info box, and put discussion of the apartments in a separate section or a separate article? --Prairieplant (talk) 01:44, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

There's a black and white photo from 1923 of the hotel in the article. Would that work? Lost on Belmont ^3200N (talk) 02:08, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Fine with me. The best photo is the aerial view in the brochure in External Links, but that photo has a cord from the brochure running through it! I did make an effort to give the text a lead that states when the hotel was demolished. Maybe I could add a title for the text below, History of the Edgewater Beach Hotel and associated buildings. If the Hotel photo is above the Apartments photo, that might make it all clearer, what was demolished, what remains. --Prairieplant (talk) 00:02, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I take it back about the best photo I have seen so far. It is the one at the top of the article on the WTTW site, Chicago Stories, already a cite in this article, about the Edgewater Beach Hotel. This article has a ways to go to describe both the building complex itself and its role in society until air conditioning and the extension of LSD so it was no longer on the edge of the water. I wonder if there are any color photos of it, before it was knocked down? I made an info box (copying from Palmer Mansion) and put that not quite right photo up top. If the tower was completed in 1922 (per WTTW), then why did it not show in that photo marked 1923? --Prairieplant (talk) 04:42, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Johnson and Lasky role for Edgewater Beach Co-op Apartments

Johnson and Lasky describe their role for this building here http://www.jlarchitects.com/pdf/Edgewater%20Beach%20Apartments.pdf

They are consulting architects for the historically significant building since 1995. I thought that the firm(s) shown in the info box were the original architects, so I deleted JL from the box. Perhaps the other firm could be mentioned in the text, if there is some special reason to do that. Did they have any role in obtaining the historical status, for example? --Prairieplant (talk) 06:26, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

I was incorrect, sorry! J&L could be added though, the were only the architects during the restoration. I don't know if the addition of something about restoration will add to the article overall. Thanks Imveracious (talk) 13:57, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

I looked at the Robie House article and the First Christian Church in Columbus IN by Eliel Saarinen. Robie House restoration was led by Walter Netsch of SOM and that is not in the info box, but in the footnotes to the text. For Saarinen's contemporary church, his son and Charles Eames, each famous in their own right, had roles in the design, and are mentioned in the article. Your final edit is more in line with those articles, and I think with the spirit of the historic places register.

I have seen two different years for construction of the co-op apartments in the sources for the article. The apartments opened Dec 1927, which is why I changed it. That is the date (month and year) in the article Edgewater Beach Apartments: a Past Revisited and the year in the WTTW article. The building opened, is their phrase. I see that Emporis uses the phrase, construction completed and gives 1928. I took the more local sources as accurate, and opening being the relevant time, with the assumption the building would not open if it is not complete, with permits and all. What is the source for Emporis? I would like to change it back to 1927, given the local sources. --Prairieplant (talk) 04:20, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I would support the change as we now have what appears to be more reliable sources. Although a source need not be local to be so and in some cases are to the contrary, Emporis appears to myself to be more of a 'genreal info' site. Also, we can check the local newspapers of the time, which are almost always of help. Thanks Imveracious (talk) 14:18, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, a source from the Chicago Tribune or Chicago Sun Times would be quite useful. The Edgewater History group has the application for the apartments to be on the National Register of Historic Places, and it adds more confusion, more dates. A newspaper article would settle things. I do not want to be copying wrong dates, as so many other sources seem to copy or reference this article. I tried to find some news sources, but no luck yet. If you can find them, please do include them. --Prairieplant (talk) 14:54, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

I am still working to find a reliable source for a date. Approximately half have it listed as 1927 while the other have 1928. I will contact several architectural history sources and historical societies in Chicago and see if we can get this straight. Imveracious (talk) 15:35, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Excellent! --Prairieplant (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Alanscottwalker the dates for the opening of the Edgewater Apartments is in dispute (see above discussion), so expect that what you changed today might be changed again when editor Imveracious finishes research. We are trying not to copy dates that are not well supported. Various sources that seem as if they should be authoritative conflict with each other. Plus that photo says it is dated 1923, which is why circa was used. Glad you read the article. --Prairieplant (talk) 23:49, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

There often seem to be multiple dates for construction projects - completed/opened/occupied etc. - so whatever you work out is fine. As for the picture, that's also a bit of a mystery if the tower was added in '22 - the picture can't be '23. Alanscottwalker (talk) 00:06, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

how to cite a court case

Klbaguio you might want to used Template:Cite court as a guide for the citation to the court case you used to indicate the the short distance from the hotel to the lake when the hotel was first built. I imagine you found this online, and can add the url to the citation. I commented out part of that citation, because Leagle. Web does not make any sense. Did you find it on line? --Prairieplant (talk) 07:33, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

File:Chicago-illinois-edgewater-beach-hotel-1910-vo-hammon-postcard-63e916a2723674048a0ba89ac406bded.png

I am not certain that this postcard shows the hotel as it claims. We would at a minimum need to explain why the article text and the other postcard image which shows both towers of the hotel show it as yellow while this image shows it pink like the 1927 apartment building. But if this image does show the apartment building there is no discrepancy. Rmhermen (talk) 05:15, 24 November 2018 (UTC) File:Edgewater Beach Hotel 1923.jpg

That's not pink, it's just the way old postcards are. The garish mustard yellow of the first postcard is far from right either. It is the 1916 hotel. That is the same building as in the picture of the 1916 hotel with the same tower on top and longer/wider and fewer story wings, same peeked roof, especially visible at the end of the wings, and same windows, which the 1927 building does not possess (the 1927 apartments are multiple stories taller with short wings, and a much different central rounded top, and have a different window configuration, and a different flat roof), and the 1927 building did not exist when the postcard was created. Alanscottwalker (talk) 08:19, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

But why is the postcard pink? Pink cannot be from fading. None of the postcards or images have good sources for dating. Perhaps the pink hotel one was published after the apartment was built and colored wrongly? Rmhermen (talk) 06:09, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

It's not pink, if you look at it in detail, it looks like the color red tint in the color spectrum in processing the postcard (a time when coloring was not precise). The tinting almost certainly comes from the prominent deep-red tiled peaked roof, a feature which the apartments do not have - again, it cannot be the apartments. The postcard not only specifically says it is the hotel, it looks like the hotel (does not look like the apartments), it is dated to the 1910s, and must be before 1922 as there is no connection to the 1922 tower. It cannot be the apartments. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:23, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

1923 photo suggested for deletion is now part of the article, not in the gallery

A pair of photos, Then and Now, show the skyline when just the Main building was constructed and in use, in 1923, and then a photo taken from approximately the same position looking south, taken in 2006. When the postcard image was used in the infobox, not enough thought was done to consider the best use of the photos. I made two changes just now. First, the text is rearranged so that the paragraph about the apartments built in matching style and still standing, is closer to the "photo at right" in that second infobox. Second, the photos Then and Now are in the section on Demolition of the hotel buildings, with Then on the left and Now on the right. I would like to work in the other skyline photo, which shows a much less elegant set of buildings compared to the demolished hotel complex. I hope that editor Marchjuly will re-consider deleting the 1923 image from this article. Replacement images are not easily available for the skyline, the buildings against the lake. Alanscottwalker and Klbaguio and other editors who have worked on this article, what do you think? --Prairieplant (talk) 03:40, 28 January 2019 (UTC)