Talk:Fogou

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Correction needed

Regarding this paragraph:

A notable example of an unspoiled fogou is to be found at Carn Euny and Trelowarren in Cornwall, others include Boleigh, Pendeen, Boden (Manaccan), Halligye, and Piskey Hall (Trewardreva).

The fogou at Trelowarren is Halligye, and there are two notable examples. I've made the changes and will add a photo of the interior of the Halligye fogou. JimChampion 20:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category question

Why is this article not considered to be suitable for the category 'British Archaeology'? Rosser1954. Good photo Jim.

Rosser1954 - the article is already catted in Category:Iron Age Britain which is a subcategory of Category:British archaeology, and normally when an article is in a subcat, it should not also be added to the parent category. DuncanHill 12:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the explanation - Rosser

No probs, it was a good question! DuncanHill 14:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re this statement:

"...lining it with drystone walling as stated, which was battereed inwards and roofed with flat slabs..."

Is anyone familiar with the term "battereed?" I can't find it in any dictionary; could it be "battered," "batteried," or "battened?" Mczech1111 23:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

'Battered' is the term usually applied to the outside of a castle wall where a sloping stretch of masonry provides extra protection from attack at low level. In his book Cornovia Craig Weatherhill refers to Psikey Hall as being an unusual fogou because the walls are 'not corbelled'. This is perhaps a better word. Jonafun22 (talk) 16:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Location of fogous

The article mentions Boscawen un and Boden (Manaccan) as being existing fogous. These are not marked on the OS maps. Are we certain about both of them? Jonafun22 (talk) 16:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have found this at the Cornwall County Council website about Boden [1]. DuncanHill (talk) 17:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More here [2]. Google boden fogou for more.DuncanHill (talk) 17:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find anything for a fogou at Boscawen-un. DuncanHill (talk) 20:02, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fogou names

Info from the Cornwall County Council web link I just added:

There are only twelve known definite or probable fogous:

Boleigh
Carn Euny
Castallack
Chysauster
Halligye
Higher Bodinar
Lower Boscaswell
Pendeen
Porthmeor
Treveneague
Trewardreva
Higher Boden near Manaccan

and twenty or so possible ones.

This is at odds with the info on fogou sites on the page:

The fogou at Constantine in Cornwall, opposite Trewardreva, is called Pixie's Hall by the locals.[5] Other notable examples of unspoiled fogous are to be found at Carn Euny and Trelowarren in Cornwall, others include Boleigh, Pendeen, Boden (Manaccan) and Piskey Hall (Trewardreva).

The Reader's Digest guide recommends the Halliggye Fougou on the Trelowarren estate for a visit, signed from the B3293 near Garras off the A3083. The site is open daily from April through to October.

Can someone who knows about htese things sort it out? 86.133.55.238 (talk) 20:34, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have had a go at sorting out the sites section using helped by an unpublished excavation report. I can find no evidence of 'twenty or so possible ones'. Jonafun22 (talk) 20:29, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tricky, as an unpublished report isn't verifiable. I despair at all the unpublished reports. Doug Weller (talk) 20:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re fogou as refuge

Article states the use of a fogou as a refuge wasn't proposed until an M.A. dissertation in 2004. But I just watched a Time Team episode from 1996 (Series 3, Episode 1, at about 7 minutes in) where that use is listed as a possibility. Wiesgon7 (talk) 20:47, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Grain Pit

The reference to Diodorus Siculus seems to be lending undue credibility to the quoted textual reference as many British sites display ample archaeological evidence of grain storage in pits well outside of the (Cornish) context at hand. Wikipedia does not seem to have a grain pit article but they are interesting of themselves. For my two penn'orth, I prefer the idea of secure communal storage of valuables, like a early type of ' bank vault'. I would be inclined to say 'dairy' given the cultural millieu; however the contemporary historians assure us that the ancient British did not make cheese ( i find this hard to give credence). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nenniu (talk • contribs) 22:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dairy

Article is a bit of mess and keeps contradicting itself - however the most probable use of fogoue (to my mind) is as an artificial cave for preservation of milk butter and cheese - diary we say clotted cream?. This is both consistent with centuries later practice in the region but also tallies with the ancient records. The British, Gaulish and Irish were well known throughout history for their cultivation of vast herds of cattle and prefernce for butter as a principle foodstuff - Jacqui Wood's Prehistoric Cooking [2001] goes into this in some detail. Meat would not dry in our damp westcountry climate - it would simply rot but im sure wine and mead were kept in there too. Refuge/Ritual are vague and silly ideas - i prefer the practical, and rather more obvious explanation.Truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true; and she does not despise the jewel which she has rescued from the mud, but adds it to her former treasures 18:02, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Construction Technique

Lots of modern tunnels are constructed with the trench-structure-burry technique employed for fogous. I'm wondering if there's a name for this general technique. I'm also wondering if there are other ancient examples of similar techniques. If so, I think it would be an interesting aspect for expanding the article.Pcrow (talk) 20:59, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think cut and cover is the term used. DuncanHill (talk) 21:09, 2 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Animal shelter

I've seen things very much like this in parts of Asia. No longer used, but people remember them. They were used for herding animals like goats, sheep and the like - especially at times where local tribes were in dispute (not at war, just in dispute). At such times it was the norm to steal from each others herds. So prior to taking a few days off to celebrate (ie drink & drugs) the livestock were herded into things like this. And the thing was closed. Above ground could then get on with their party without fear of losing livestock. Maybe the Celts in England did the same? 92.34.233.216 (talk) 21:39, 2 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fogon

The used to be an article under Fogon: "Fogon is a Cornish mythological site, composed of underground stone chambers found in Cornwall, and believed to have been built between 500 B.C.E. and 500 C.E. Fogons appear to have been ritual and sacred places. Legends link them with unearthly women, possibly goddesses.^[1]"--Johnsoniensis (talk) 09:35, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ P. Monaghan The Encyclopedia of Celtic Mythology and Folklore New York: Facts On File, Inc, 2004. ISBN 0-8160-4524-0.

[monaghan-1] P. Monaghan The Encyclopedia of Celtic Mythology and Folklore New York: Facts On File, Inc, 2004. ISBN 0-8160-4524-0.

[1]