Talk:Fratire

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This article was nominated for deletion on 31 August 2008 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

This article was nominated for deletion on 11 January 2008. The result of the discussion was Delete.

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Sources

What about the book published recently called "Men are Better Than Women" It is exactly fratire. Infact I think in the amazon review of the book there is a defacto definition of Fratire. It's also recieved great reviews on amazon. (added by a random reader - 02 May 08)

The main concerns of the people who deleted the last article was that it didn't not source any article written about the term. I'm a fan of the genre so I went through and found a whole bunch. If you check out the resources for chick lit and for lad lit I think that this far exceeds the burden that they have apparently met. One of the articles is a contracted Huffington Post piece that does nothing but discuss the genre and its evolution, another is from the New York Times and then the rest is rounded out by The Guardian and Time Magazine. The article I wrote is completely different than what was posted before and meets all the necessary standards. Is there something I need to add? TheRegicider (talk) 19:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps a merger to lad lit might resolve disputes. Pushing this term over that one might be seen as spamvertising instead of cultural education. - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 20:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My concern has been addressed. As a non-admin, I'm not able to look at deleted articles, but I put that tag there so that an admin could compare the two, to see if there was too much similarity there. Dreaded Walrus ^{t c} 20:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Understandable. But the current sourcing includes a notable and direct reference, so I feel that the speedy was not correct. You can still {{prod}} or {{afd}} the article if you like. It's not like I'm emotionally invested, here. ;-) - CobaltBlueTony™ _talk 20:25, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Problems

The problem with this article is clearly defining the genre. Tucker Max and Maddox are considered founder but both write over completely different subjects. Max is always going on about women and alcohol, etc. talking about his real life experiences. Maddox is purely anti-trend. He's sarcastic and only writes stuff that furthers anti-trend thoughts. Max is not anti-trend, though what he does may be looked down upon by many. There's a big difference there. The only real similarity I can see is they focus on masculinity to differeing degrees. It's hard to compare them. I mean, I happen to think Max is a total dick (even if he's interesting to read) whereas Maddox I consider somehwat of a hero/idol for his work against trends. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 22:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I nominate to delete. Tucker Max is not a person of note, nor is he the founder of anything. Maddox has a claim, but really isn't listed as Fratire. Seems like a non-genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.175.160.243 (talk) 04:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree, irrelevant. You cannot just make up your own genre and self promote as an originator. --Jabbakahut (talk) 19:24, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I nominate to re-write this entry as Lad lit (which merely redirects here). Lad lit is a widely used term for a literary genre (by mainly British authors), abundantly discussed in scholarly publications and literature encyclopedias, while ‘fratire’ is a term that is extremely narrow and used purely in an US-American context, as far as I can see. The redirect is bizarre in itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.94.18.128 (talk) 10:53, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Because this article is specific to the term "Fratire", it seems to be adequately sourced to stand on its own. However, on reflection, I see no reason that a separate article on "Lad lit" could not be created -- based upon, as you say, "scholarly publications and literature encyclopedias." The Oxford Dictionary of Literary Terms, works of scholars such as Michael Kimmel and Rosalind Gill, and the numerous "lad lit" refs in RS sources to the books of Nick Hornby, Tony Parsons, etc. would be a good start. After creation, a discussion could certainly be held on the merits of merging the two articles or whether they would be best left on their own. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 17:18, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is Zeropunctuation fratire?

Is Zero_Punctuation#Zero_Punctuation fratire? if yes, we should add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.134.175.247 (talk) 13:51, 22 June 2008 (UTC) No it isn't[reply]

Fratire authors

There have been attempts to add the names or works of writers into this article simply because of the writers' subject matter. This constitutes WP:OR and fails WP guidelines. This article is only about the genre of Fratire and those authors who have been discussed (independently) in relation to the genre. The only authors who should be included in this article are those which have sources that connect them to "Fratire." The sources need to be reliable and independent from the author or from the author's press or publishing agent. — CactusWriter | ^needles 11:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neil Strauss as far as I know has only ghost-written autobiographies, and done memoirs of his own. I don't see how that really fits into this genre. Is there any source referring to him in this class of writing? 69.59.106.249 (talk) 10:51, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can read the NY Times reference. Warren St. John, in his original article coining the term "fratire," included Strauss as one of the genre's authors. In particular, he noted Strauss' book The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists. — CactusWriter | ^needles 12:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]