Talk:Freezing rain

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ABSOLUTY AGAINST MOVING THIS ARTICLE[edit]

This article is about Freezing rain not Ice storms. Terefore it is about a type of precipitations. The same way RAIN and SNOW have their own article, freezing rain HAS to REMAIN on its own. Pierre_cb 2005-04-28 19:30 UTC.

I agree. It's about a specific phenomenon and I can see no advantage to merging into a far broader article. Worldtraveller 00:49, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Merged, maybe. Into Storm, no. If we want to do any merging, then we should take all the different articles on PRECIPITATION (including this one) and merge them together. I have no opinion, personally, on whether this merging should take place or not, but if it is done, then all precipitation articles (rain, snow, sleet, wintry showers, hail, graupel, and freezing rain) should be merged into one article on precipitation. Famartin 00:59 29 April 2006 UTC

FZRA should be merged into Freezing rain[edit]

A one-line entry. If METAR codes are notable, they should be in the entry for the weather conditions they describe -- it would be literally a one-sentence addition! -- Michael Bauser 20:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism?[edit]

"begins as a weiner shnitzel snow or rain"  weiner shnitzel??  WTF?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.53.219.20 (talk) 18:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

External links[edit]

More information about external links: WP:EL. Four is hardly too many. Quality matters. Rklawton 14:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Ice Storm Page[edit]

I noticed the freezing rain page has much more information than the very similar ice storm page. I've taken some of the information here and put it in pertinent sections, but that page could use some help if interested. Tevonic (talk) 09:11, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Freezing rain vs. supercooled rain[edit]

In my opinion there's a difference between freezing rain and supercooled rain. Freezing rain should mean that air temperature is above the freezing point (thus raindrops are not supercooled) but the surfaces are below it (when rain hits them they get frozen), while supercooled rain means that air temperature is also below the freezing point. Anyway there's a problem with METAR codes that do not distinguish between the types: FZRA is used for supercooled rain.--Carnby (talk) 23:34, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

...which means unless you can find a good published source for your opinion, it is considered original research and not to be included in the article. Thegreatdr (talk) 01:16, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
This is cutting angels' hairs as the only way to have warm rain freezing on cold objects is that the objects cooled down more rapidly or warmed up more slowly than the layer of air around them. The only time this could happens is at the transition of below to above freezing when objects lag a bit behind in temperature, a situation that last no more than a few tenth of a degree. METAR is not for angels but for practical aviation. Pierre cb (talk) 05:46, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Thing is that freezing rain has actually frozen before it hits the ground, not after. Traisjames (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:18, 16 September 2009 (UTC).

Wrong, rain that has frozen before hitting the ground is Ice pellets, commonly called sleet in the States. Pierre cb (talk) 22:27, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
In the UK frozen 'ice pellets' are called hail, and mixed rain and snow is called sleet.The Yowser (talk) 15:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Merge glaze ice into this article[edit]

I see no reason for there to be separate articles on glaze ice and freezing rain. They should all be covered in one article, ideally this one. Discuss. Famartin (talk) 09:55, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

  1. AGAINST : Freezing rain in the meteorological phenomenon while glaze ice is the result, the two are separate things. To my thinking, a merge would be similar to merge articles on thunderstorms and tornadoes. Pierre cb (talk) 13:38, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
How can you separate one from the other? Freezing rain is only freezing rain because it becomes glaze ice. Otherwise, its just rain. Besides, look at these two articles... they are almost identical already. Famartin (talk) 20:46, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Glaze ice is not a precipitation but a type of ice like rime ice, hoar frost, black ice, etc... Furthermore freezing rain is a precipitation that cause glaze ice but not the only one that can do it, freezing drizzle can form it too. Since it does not "rain glaze ice" you cannot classify it in the precipitation category and merge it with freezing rain. Pierre cb (talk) 01:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Freezing drizzle and freezing rain are so close to the same thing they should both be included here as well. There's simply too much redundancy between the articles here. I think ice storm should also be folded into freezing rain but one step at a time. Famartin (talk) 03:03, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
Rain and drizzle are formed totally differently and I insist ice is not a precipitation (by the way glaze ice can be formed by just spraying water with a hose) ! While you are at it why not lump together all the type of weather phenomenon into one the article. That way, there will be one article for meteorology. Pierre cb (talk) 04:42, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
You just proved my point. If glaze ice can be formed just by spraying water from a hose, why does it need a separate article from plain ice and freezing rain? There's nothing special or notable about glaze ice in and of itself, other than the fact it is formed from freezing rain. We should just put the meteorological effects of glaze ice into the freezing rain article and be done with it. Have glaze ice redirect to that section of the freezing rain article. Famartin (talk) 06:33, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
I have proved nothing of the sort. Anyway, you won't make me change my mind and you certainly will not change yours. So lets other give their view on the subject. Pierre cb (talk) 07:12, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - the two are so closely connected it's hard to separate them. Pierre's thunderstorm/tornado analogy isn't a good one. It's more like saying we should have a "Tornado" and "Tornado damage" article. The merger makes sense. Inks.LWC (talk) 08:01, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - Not only are they discussing the same thing (you can go all chicken and egg with this argument if you want), but you can tell in the page ratings that more people are going to the freezing rain article than the glaze ice article. At least in the United States, freezing rain is the more common term, and the article is better referenced anyhow. I'm not sure I would support the ice storm article being merged in though. Thegreatdr (talk) 19:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Against - I had been looking for the term Glaze Ice for several years. I don't know if I would have found it if it was hiding under freezing rain, because I associate it with ice, not precipitation. 70.176.57.162 (talk) 04:16, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
That's not really a valid argument, since it would still appear in a search. Plus, usually for articles which are merged, they get redirects. Famartin (talk) 06:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Support Glaze ice is so closely related to freezing rain and can only be caused by freezing rain. There can be a redirect from Glaze ice to Freezing rain to solve the problem of people searching for glaze ice being unable to find the article Freezing rain. Blackbombchu (talk) 21:27, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Against Glaze ice could redirect to Freezing rain. Glaze ice is the after-effect of freezing rain. It is a result, not the action. That's like suggesting that heat and steam be merged. They are mutual but separate states. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.126.99.101 (talk) 03:26, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - Glaze ice, freezing drizzle, and freezing rain appear to have similar and largely overlapping coverage. Unless somebody can clarify the distinctions among them and cleanly divide up the material into independent cross-referenced articles, they should eventually be combined (with appropriate redirects) into a single article that clearly explains their relationships in one place. For that matter, there are articles on hard rime, soft rime, clear ice, and black ice which need to be clarified and distinguished from one another, or combined into a single article where the distinctions can be explained. As things stand currently, the constellation of ice-related articles is confusing, partially redundant, has gaps in coverage, and is poorly cross-referenced. Somebody with a comprehensive view of the entire topic of outdoors ice needs to come up with a clear framework to get things organized. Help! Reify-tech (talk) 05:22, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

ATR-72 and freezing rain[edit]

I was the FAA senior icing specialist and the FAA representative on the NTSB investigation on American Eagle Flight 4184. I did the ice testing at Edwards AFB on the ATR-72 (twice) and three other airplanes. As I write this I am lecturing on the use of computational fluid dynamics in FAA certification including discussion on this very topic. It was not freezing rain that caused the sharp edged ridge of ice to form aft of the aileron that resulted in self deflection in the accident sequence, it was freezing drizzle. The FAA has not yet issued its final rule defining the requirements for aircraft on this issue and is expected to do so in March 2014, nearly 20 years after the accident. I have authored several papers on this and related subjects.

The discussion on the ATR-72 accident should be in the discussion of freezing drizzle or more correctly supercooled drizzle drops.24.178.213.203 (talk) 16:34, 5 December 2013 (UTC)John P. Dow, Sr.

  • Very interesting! We would like to take your word on it but this is new information not available to Wikipedia before. Could you produce references so the article could be modified. Pierre cb (talk) 00:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect information about freezing rain.[edit]

The article said freezing rain is rain that falls when surface temperature are below 0°C. Isn't the real definition of freezing rain rain that freezes imediately after it hits any surface at all. Isn't it possible for ground temperatures to be above 0°C when freezing rain builds up on aircraft. In addition to that, the article states that freezing rain is supercooled but I think not all freezing is supercooled. Can't it happen that the air temperature and surface temperatures are both below 0°C then the air warms up to above 0°C without thick tree branches having enough time to warm up to avove 0°C then rain avove 0°C hits those tree branches then freezes from those tree branches being below 0°C, with rain that was above 0°C forming glaze ice. I think that type of freezing rain is even more common at night when the sun isn't there to speed up the warming of the surfaces of tree branches. Blackbombchu (talk) 21:14, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

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