Talk:Hourglass

Time C‑class Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Time, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Time on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TimeWikipedia:WikiProject TimeTemplate:WikiProject TimeTime articles
C	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Relevance after the Mechanical Clock

Should there be a separate section discussing how the use of the hourglass was impacted after the invention of the mechanical clock? The only reference I can see in the article about this topic does not have any citations that correspond to this topic. Lizcarrano (talk) 16:48, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

Anyone got any better pictures of an hourglass?

Hourglass album

There is an album called Hourglass by James Taylor not mentioned with "Hourglass". There is a link for an hourglass single record, but it would seem wierd to place two links at the top of a page like that. Instead, due to me being inexperenced and problably mess it up, can someone make a disambiguation page or, if it seems ok, just place it under the other hourglass link. Thx, Nickmaster 22:19, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Egg timer

Firstly should hourglass be merged with egg timer, and secondly there seem to be differing opinions on the root of the term egg timer. The German Wikipedia sais they were called egg timer because egg shells were sometimes used inside the glasses instead of sand beacause crushed egg shells give extremely fine powder.

cursors

interestingly it does not mention the use of hourglasses as a signal for busy in operating systems —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SleweD (talk • contribs) 13:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

18 hourglasses?

The examples section says a ship captain carried 18 hourglasses aboard. What could the function of having so many be? - Mpnolan 04:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Without accurate timekeeping on a ship in the open ocean it's much more difficult to estimate position. A ship that was relying on an hourglass could not afford to be without one. (The article says they were for the ship's log, but that's incidental, and perhaps not correct.) So, there would "backup" hourglasses, if the ones in use broke. Also, for most accurate timing (I don't know if this was done), the best thing would be to take 2 or 3 hourglasses and average the time the sand ran out between them. (This was done with early mechanical clocks, so it's reasonable to assume it was done with hourglasses.) Taking duplicate hourglasses and need for backup in account (Magellen would have had no way to replace the hourglasses during his years at sea) 18 might be a prudent number to take.

Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 21:11, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What a useful insight that could be included in the article -- do you have any citations for that? --Yamara ✉ 14:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The source, as I remember, is one of the books describing John Harrison and his clocks to resolve "the longitude problem". To achieve more accurate timekeeping, one of the things done was to keep more than one clock and average their times.

I remember the same technique being applied to sandglasses, but I can't be sure that was said. We'll avoid original research, but it can't have escaped hourglass makers and customers that hourglasses didn't have consistent time betweem them, and that there was an easy way to reconcile them.

I'll try to get something more definite. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 01:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Related terms

I'm not so sure if there should be a 'related terms' section - shouldn't this be covered in the disambiguation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.114.176.214 (talk) 04:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed it, but I post what it had here:

Related terms

"Hourglass figure" is a slang term for woman with a narrow waist and full hips and bust.

The "hourglass model" is a project research approach (Trochim, W.M.K, 2005). The hourglass model starts with a broad spectrum for research, focusing in on the required information through the methodology of the project (like the neck of the hourglass), then expands the research in the form of discussion and results.

—Yamara ✉ 07:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Glassmaking in Europe

Glassmaking in Europe goes back to at least Roman times, so probably what the article should read is that glassmaking for hourglasses was brought to Europe by the Venetians?

Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 21:11, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a legacy bit from before I hacked at the article. Needs something, but be careful: I've come across mentions of hourglasses being put into Roman statues restored during the Renaissance, which couldn't have had them in the original. Roman glass is probably heavier and more opaque than the blown glass needed for hourglasses, but that's just a fuzzy recollection while I'm typing here. —Yamara ✉ 00:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Modern symbolic use

I've restored most of the Days of Our Lives stuff for reasons mentioned in the edit summary. It's hardly peacockery: most of that is historic perspective on symbolism. Personally, I could care less about soap operas, but I haven't been able to avoid that opening meme since I was small. (Non-Americans may have avoided it altogether.) Also, the computer icon bit is now better, but almost strays a little off-topic near the end. —Yamara ✉ 00:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The date could be useful after a fashion. (Actually, it might be interesting to know how quickly clocks phased hourglasses out, given that early clocks were expensive and didn't necessarily keep good time. Hmmm.)

The hourglass symbol has been used on other computers, which is why the word "Windows" specifically was avoided, but on consideration about 99% of readers will not have used them, or even heard of them, so perhaps being exact is more confusing than helpful.

Regards,

Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 06:43, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The soap opera story could go into an 'appearences in popular culture' section.

Historical usage

I'm adding a quote to give a broader historical context (and replacing in History that it was only used back as far as the 11th century). This source seems fairly dispassionate, knowledgable and detailed, but there are bound to be better. "The Book of Days: A Miscellany of Popular Antiquities in Connection with the Calendar"

Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 00:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spider

The article should mention somewhere that black widow spiders have hourglasses on their bellies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.105.128.54 (talk) 23:10, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Possible copyvio?

Several sentences seem to have been copied verbatim from http://www.thepirateking.com/historical/sand_glass.htm In particular, the entire "Largest Sandglasses" paragraph -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 12:12, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's a little hard to tell who copied whom. The original Wiki version contained the same (weakly written sentence) "One of the bulbs is usually filled with fine sand which flows through the narrow tube into the bottom bulb at a given rate."[1] The section removed by Dougweller clearly was a Wiki copyright violation, since a reference was given to the place it was copied from![2]. The removed material wasn't especially encyclopedic, unless one is interested in subverting Wikipedia into becoming The Guinness Book of World Records. Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 03:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Distribution of the word "sandglass"

I have a pretty extensive vocabulary, and had never before heard the word "sandglass". When I first read it, I thought it might be some subtle vandalism. However, after a bit of web searching, I am satisfied that it is a real word: albeit about 25 times less common than "hourglass." However this makes me wonder if it is a regionalism? Does anyone know? -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 12:18, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Sand-glass" is in the OED with a number of examples starting 1556, including a variation spelled "sandglass". It is not marked as dialect, and the examples make it clear that it was in common, professional use. Regards, Alpha Ralpha Boulevard (talk) 03:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ibn Sirin's Dictionary of Dreams

I have included the entry on hourglass from Ibn Seerin's Book of Dreams. It was undone by someone stupidly claiming the book doesn't exist. An ISBN trace makes it evidently clear it does. The book includes a forward by Dr Mahmoud Ayoub, a leading Islamic Studies academic. Ibn Seerin (Ibn Sirin) is entered on Wikipedia and reference is also made to the same book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plimfix (talk • contribs) 10:56, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed references to this book twice now. There is such a book, but it isn't clear who wrote it or when. Ibn Sirin's article says he didn't, as does [3]. Dougweller (talk) 11:23, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't notice the misplaced edit above, which I've moved to the bottom under the section I started. The existence of a book doesn't make it a reliable source. When it can be shown that the book was written by the alleged author, only then can it be used. At the moment it appears that he didn't write it, including the author's article that Plimfix mentions. I've asked Plimfix to take this to RSN if he disagrees. Hopefully without any personal attacks. Dougweller (talk) 11:30, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hourglass body shape section?

I'm really not sure why the Body shape section is here...it doesn't fit in well with the rest of the article, it has no sources, and it's...creepy. I'm removing it for now, if somebody comes up with a legitimate reason for its inclusion they can add it back and hopefully explain themselves here. --Kierkkadon^{talk/contribs} 14:00, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Infinity symbol

It's an hourglass tipped on it's side, representing time no longer flowing/running out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.55.176.9 (talk) 20:05, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong, see infinity symbol. It's also called lemniscate and the usual interpretation is as a stylised Möbius strip, but that cannot be the historical origin either as John Wallis introduced the symbol already in 1655. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 20:21, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

trimmed content

I trimmed the following from the introductory paragraph, but it may find a different home.

Alternatives to sand are powdered eggshell and powdered marble^[1] (sources disagree on the best material). In modern times, hourglasses are ornamental, or used when an approximate measure suffices, as in egg timers for cooking or for board games.

—jameslucas (" " / +) 13:24, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Madehow.com (2006). "Hourglass". How Products Are Made, vol. 5. Madehow.com. Retrieved 2008-02-04.

Mistakes copied from an unscholarly source

"Some of the most famous hourglasses are the twelve-hour hourglass of Charlemagne of France" -- Charlemagne of France? Really? While the Roman Emperor Charlemagne was a Frankish king, there was no France during his lifetime. The reference for this and for the following information about Holbein is an obscure website that itself doesn't quote sources. One starts to wonder how reliable the rest of this article is ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.85.163.42 (talk) 13:47, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Hourglass. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/19980429132355/http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/dailys/ds260397.pdf to http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/dailys/ds260397.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:02, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Hourglass. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:50, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No hourglasses in Europe prior to the Middle Ages?!!!?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the following sentence:

„There are no records of the hourglass existing in Europe prior to the Early Middle Ages, such as invention by the Ancient Greeks“.

Hourglasses were used in Greek trials to accord speakers equal time. See also the preceding paragraph, „antiquity“. Akalovid (talk) 09:22, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know enough to date the invention of the hourglass (which I presume is synonymous with sandglass), but I agree that the article can't claim the hourglass to be invented in the Middle Ages and at the same time say "Depictions of an hourglass as a symbol of the passage of time are found in art, especially on tombstones or other monuments, from antiquity to the present day." BlueSide-III (talk) 13:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this because you exclude hourglasses running on water from the definition? Akalovid (talk) 09:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"⧗" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect ⧗. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 24#⧗ until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 18:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[madehow-1] Madehow.com (2006). "Hourglass". How Products Are Made, vol. 5. Madehow.com. Retrieved 2008-02-04.

[1]