Talk:Immanuvel Devendrar
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- Moved content below from article. Jim1138 (talk) 09:11, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
The following is not in English or is unsourced
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Legacy[edit]
Quotes[edit]" Even if we do not have freedom, we should stand up with valour for our rights " ( நமக்கு சுதந்திரம் இல்லை என்றாலும், நம் உரிமைகளுக்காக போராடுவோம் ) " Annihilation of Caste " ( ஜாதி ஒழிப்பு) " Never Believed in Violences " ( வன்முறைகளில் நம்பிக்கை இல்லை ) |
Recent removals
[edit]People keep removing what appears to be reliably sourced information from this article, and also adding unsourced info. I am not seeing any explanation for these changes, let alone a valid explanation. Hence my reverts. - Sitush (talk) 09:16, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
Change of Name
[edit]FYI Sitush and the others who care for Wikipedia.
All in good faith, the edit done by Bilqischondol seems to be correct as Immanuel Sekaran[1][2] [3][4] was never addressed as Immanuvel Devendrar. In 2010, the Indian government had issued a stamp on his name "Immanuel Sekaranar", -ar being the transliteration of the suffix for respect in Tamil.
References have been included. I have also given the link to the Indian postage stamp catalog (https://www.indiapost.gov.in) where there is a list of Commemorative stamps issued from 1947-2011 which lists Immanuel Sekaran's stamp having been issued on 9th October, 2010.[5]
Hemalataeditor (talk) 09:21, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
References
- ^ K. A, Manikumar (May 2017). Murder in Mudukulathur : caste and electoral politics in Tamil Nadu (First edition ed.). New Delhi: Leftword Books. ISBN 9789380118512.
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has extra text (help) - ^ Iyer, Aditya. "Freedom fighter, Dalit icon: Remembering Tamil Nadu's Immanuel Sekaran". hindustantimes.com. Hindustan Times. Retrieved 11 September 2018.
- ^ "Tight security in Paramakudi". theHindu.com. The Hindu.
- ^ Scott D J, Walter. "Immanuel Sekaran's daughter goes down memory lane". The Hindu. The Hindu. Retrieved 11 September 2018.
- ^ "Indian Postage Stamp Catalogue 1947 - 2011" (PDF). India Post - Ministry of Communications , Government of India. Retrieved 11 September 2018.
- Hemalataeditor Thank you for insights. Actually, this is what I had meant. Bilqischondol (talk) 09:30, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- I have taken the liberty of slightly reformatting the above two posts. I know not which would be the WP:COMMONNAME for this guy but what I do know is that the article title should reflect it, as too should the infobox and the introduction. The change that I reverted earlier just made things more complex and was contrary to our policy. As I said in my edit summary for that revert, we need to bear in mind the provisions of COMMONNAME and also of WP:RM. If someone is known by several names then the article title etc should reflect the one that is policy compliant but the article itself should also mention other names that are frequently used.
- What do our existing sources say? I certainly don't give any great weight to government opinion, and nor should anyone else - when it comes to matters relating to caste etc, as this is, the situation is highly politicised. Similarly, as a current discussion at WP:RSN seems to be noting, most Indian newspapers are not really reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 14:50, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Sitush and Hemalataeditor thank you for sharing. I understand the WP:COMMONNAME provisions and want to confirm that in addition to governmental and newspaper sources, there are several published books and journal articles mentioning Immanuel Sekaran. These can be provided. Existing sources also point to the commonly used name being Immanuel Sekaran. My suggestion is to move the page to a place with the correct commonplace name and to mention also-known-as names within as required by WP:COMMONNAME . As far as the discussion on "reliability" of Indian newspapers - slashing off a whole genre of a nation's media seems injudicious - even partiularly racist - and is indicative of the epidemic of western and white hegemony over Wikipedia but I will see the discussion where it is happening. Bilqischondol (talk) 04:11, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
- The article would need to be moved also, if consensus is that the preferred name should be changed within it. Regarding the discussion about news sources etc, I think you will find that most participants there are Indian and/or have major involvement in editing Indian topics here - unlikely to be racist or an example of western and white hegemony. If you do participate there then it might be best to consider the general contributions of the existing participants before launching into potentially inflammatory generalisations about a swathe of editors. - Sitush (talk) 05:21, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
- Sitush you asked a good question. What do the existing sources say? All the existing sources mention his name as 'Immanuel Sekaran' everywhere. Because you mentioned caste, I should warn that whoever created this page has added Immanuel Sekaran's caste name Devendrar as his surname, which was discarded by many people in Tamil Nadu. Regarding the WP:COMMONNAME, you say you don't know, why not look at all the news articles from the so called mainstream newspapers (I remember you said 'The Hindu' is most relaible not very long ago). The existing page also has sources from The Hindu which say Immanuel Sekaran and not Immanuvel Devendrar (though there are very few instances where he is addressed as Immanuel Sekaran Devendrar). Everyone here is to improve the article and I see (from our previous conversations) that you do a lot of research on Indian articles to edit them, if not your edits would stand invalid. So, if you really want to improve this page, I would say a little more research from your side is needed. You say that you don't give great weight to government opinion, but Wikipedia is not asking for your opinion either, I am sure (unless Wikipedia gives more weight to your opinion than government issued documents). Also when government ID's are the only proof for anyone's citizen, how can you deny it? Your mention of WP:RSN doesn't hold any importance in this conversation as none of the sources provided by us are web based news and are from the mainstream (two from The Hindu, one from the Hindustan Times, a book from a prominant publishing house, and a government issued document). If we can stop arguing on what you think for a while and focus on the mainstream sources, we may efficiently improve the article. I suggest moving the article to "Immanuel Sekaran" and also make changes in the infobox and introduction accordingly. Adding Bilqischondol - Hemalataeditor (talk) 05:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I am not arguing, merely questioning and insisting that people follow policy. I am also researching anything at the moment, nor do I have an opinion regarding the naming here. I have not been well for some time and am not contributing much at all. My point was merely one regarding policy and how any change plays out with the article title. The main name used in a biographical article should reflect the title of that article, and the recent change would have caused them to be different. If consensus favours the recent change then the article needs to be re-titled. Simple as that. Any opinion I offered re: government sources, newspapers etc merely reflects the current consensus about reliability and use of such sources - always prefer academic texts. - Sitush (talk) 05:47, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
- Tamil wikipedia never uses Immanuvel Devendrar.(https://ta.wikipedia.org/s/823) He is commonly know as Immanuvel Sekaran, So change the article title to Immanuvel Sekaran. --BALA. RTalk 09:37, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
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