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Comments from copy-editor

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Taken out this image [Salvador Dali moustache], pending a review of the MOS, because I'm not sure it fits with the context of the film. I'll put it back if it's permitted, but I think it's tangential at best to the actual article. (also got query as to whether image is rightfully uploaded as CC-BY-SA.) LS1979 (talk) 12:38, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Refactored above comment, because I removed the image from the talk page because it's not free content. LS1979 (talk) 13:08, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Having looked at MOS:IMAGE, it does say images should be directly relevant. I don't think Salvador Dali is the best image for this article, even if he was an inspiration for the moustache. The Indian person mentioned in that paragraph might be a better fit for an illustration, or it might help if limited fair use images (marked as such as and uploaded to Wikipedia rather than Commons as per WP:NFCC) from the film were used. As for the copyright, if it was taken from the BBC website, it is doubtful that it is a freely licensed image, so I've removed it from this talk page as well. LS1979 (talk) 12:55, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Imsai Arasan 23rd Pulikecei/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 10:33, 20 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Disambiguation

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  • The page histories indicate that until recently, two duplicate articles on this subject existed, the current version Imsai Arasan 23am Pulikesi (created 21 May 2006‎‎) and Imsai Arasan 23m Pulikesi (created 21 July 2006‎). Any idea why there were two different versions for so many years? There are still quite a number of articles that link to the duplicate (but alternately named topic).[1] Surely, these should be fixed if this is the correct title? Why are there two different titles? Viriditas (talk) 05:53, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Many newspapers named the films as either one of the two versions. But, both are correct and signify the same translation ie meaning. —Ssven2 speak 2 me 06:25, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is already fine as it is, because 23m redirects to this article now, and anything linking to that actually links to this. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:16, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm still trying to figure this out. Did the film have several different titles (a primary and an alternate, in most cases)? Can you explain why this is the case? In other words, why does the article currently sit at this title rather than the other? If it is, should the article make a note of it? A footnote to explain the use of both titles would work and is generally best practice if a film uses multiple titles. Viriditas (talk) 07:22, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What is it you want me to do, Viriditas? —Ssven2 speak 2 me 07:30, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If I visited any of those links and was brought here instead, I would wonder why the title was different. Do you think the article should make a note that two different titles were used? A mention in the "Notes" section would be fine if you think it should. Viriditas (talk) 07:34, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you type Puthiya Paravai or Pudhiya Paravai, both redirect to Puthiya Paravai (An article brought to GA status by me and Kailash29792 yesterday night). Same case here. You can put the blame on the sources for that. :P —Ssven2 speak 2 me 07:43, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also in Puthiya Paravai, there is a sentence that says, "also spelt Pudhiya Paravai," is that good, Viriditas? —Ssven2 speak 2 me 07:43, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ssven, actually PP does not have that sentence anymore. But the lead in Chandralekha (a FA) reads, "also spelled Chandraleka" with a footnote. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:47, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fine idea, Kailash. I have added the note. Will add references to it. —Ssven2 speak 2 me 07:50, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Friends, I'm just trying to figure out the correct title. I just started watching the film on YouTube, and the title credit at 07:06 says, Imsai Arasan 23rd Pulikecei. Since this refers to the 23rd baby (of which there are two sharing that spot due to the plot) why are we using the term "am" here, when the title uses the correct term "23rd"? Viriditas (talk) 07:52, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have added the references to the footnote. —Ssven2 speak 2 me 07:59, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Kailash29792: Can you move the article Imsai Arasan 23am Pulikesi to Imsai Arasan 23rd Pulikecei? —Ssven2 speak 2 me 08:04, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I will. But don't you know how to, Ssven? Kailash29792 (talk) 08:07, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Kailash29792: When I tried to move Yennai Arindhaal..., you were the one who informed me that "this is not how you move an article." :P —Ssven2 speak 2 me 08:13, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I marked this resolved, but if someone wants to revisit this, I don't mind. Viriditas (talk) 20:10, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Images

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Lead

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Plot

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  • The film then shifts to 1796, 25 years after Pulikesi's birth.
  • He is a puppet in the hands of Sangilimayan, who collaborates with the British.
    • Can you briefly expand on the collaboration point? Something like, "He is a puppet in the hands of Sangilimayan, who collaborates with the British in order to increase the personal wealth of the kingdom over the needs of its people." This is important to the plot. Viriditas (talk) 09:38, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kailasakaruppan and his wife, Maragathavalli, a childless couple, secretly adopt the other child.
  • He grows up to become Ukraputhan, an educated, patriotic young man, with friends helping him try to overthrow the British.
  • To save the land from Sangilimayan and the British, he captures and replaces Pulikesi as the king whilst sending Pulikesi to prison as Ukraputhan.
    • I think this part could benefit from a rewrite since it's so important in the film. For example, it would help to tell the reader that "he captures Pulikesi and trades places with him as the king whilst sending his twin, the former king, to prison in his place as Ukraputhan." Or however you want to word it. Viriditas (talk) 09:52, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • He joins the kingdom's commander-in-chief, Agandamuthu, brings about new reforms and refuses to give the British the tributes and taxes they demand.
    • The reader should know more about these reforms and how they benefit the people, such as how the kingdom now funds the education of children, how the harem has been transformed into a school, how the rule of Ukraputhan (pretending to be Pulikesi) is comparable to that of a Buddha King, how his mother praises his reforms, etc. Contrast his rule with that of his brother who was cruel and tortured his subjects. Don't gloss over these points. They are important to the story. Viriditas (talk) 09:58, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the plot section say anything about Soolayini and Vasantha Sundari beyond the fact that they get married at the end? Seems to me they had more substance to their roles. For example, Soolayini took care of Pulikesi in the gold mine. Viriditas (talk) 02:27, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The film has a happy ending with the kingdom attaining independence from the British and Pulikesi and Ukraputhan get married to their respective lovers, Soolayini and Vasantha Sundari.
  • Vasantha Sundari is only mentioned at the end. Please mention her in the appropriate part of the plot. Viriditas (talk) 11:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In English, the title is "The King of Torture, Pulikecei the 23rd". At the beginning of the film, the baby Pulikesi begins "torturing" his subjects by laughing at their pain. When he grows up, the king tortures his palace guards as well as his subjects. However, the plot section sees little to nothing about this. I think the best place to say a few words about this is right after the sentence, "He is a puppet in the hands of Sangilimayan, who collaborates with the British for his own personal gains and does not attend to the needs of the people of his kingdom." Viriditas (talk) 02:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cast

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(talk page stalker)

Production

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Development
  • Director Shankar produced and distributed the film under his production banner, S Pictures, after being impressed with Chimbu Deven's script,[10] making the film his third as producer after Mudhalvan (1999) and Kaadhal (2004).
  • "The audience expect films like ‘Imsai…’ once in a while and the success of the movie is a clear indication...

(talk page stalker)

Casting
Filming

Themes and influences

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Music

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  • The second paragraph reads like random factoids, rather than a coherent narrative. It needs a good copyedit. There are two ways to approach this. One, look at a few GA/FA music sections to get a better idea of how to write it. And two, structure your narrative by grouping like with like. Although not perfect, here's an example of how the narrative improves when you restructure with grouping in mind:

The soundtrack album received positive critical reception. G. Dhananjayan said the songs contributed to the film's success and were popular during the theatrical run of the film. IndiaGlitz praised the musicians and noted the melodious interludes of the hit song "Aah Aadivaa" and the fusion of modern western and traditional Indian music in the song "Vaanam Namakul", which reminded one reviewer of T L Maharajan.

This is just an example, but do you see how I grouped similar content together to form a consistent narrative? Before, you had sentences about the same ideas (musicians, songs, critics) scattered throughout the paragraph with no logical grouping. Viriditas (talk) 09:51, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
 Done I have used as per your example. — Ssven2 speak 2 me 10:26, 26 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Release

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  • Imsai Arasan 23rd Pulikecei was initially scheduled to be released on 19 May 2006, but was postponed twice, once to 9 June 2006,[34] and then to 8 July 2006.[3]
  • The film was released in 135 screens across Tamil Nadu.[35] The theatrical rights of the Telugu dubbed version of the film were purchased by R. B. Choudary's Mega Super Good Films.[36] The film was dubbed into Telugu as Himsinche 23 Va Raju Pulikesi, where Vadivelu's voice was dubbed by Brahmanandam.[22]
  • "The film was banned in Karnataka as Pulakesi II was a famous king who belonged to the Western Chalukyan Dynasty and ruled the Karnataka region in the seventh century. As a result of this, the Karnataka Film Chamber of Commerce objected to a spoof film with the ruler's name as the film's title being released in their state.[22]
    • Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't it read instead: "The Karnataka Film Chamber of Commerce objected to the spoof film with Pulakesi's name in the film's title. The film was banned in in Karnataka as Pulakesi II was a famous king who belonged to the Western Chalukyan Dynasty and ruled the Karnataka region in the seventh century." Viriditas (talk) 02:53, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      •  Done I have rephrased it as "The Karnataka Film Chamber of Commerce objected to a spoof film with Pulikecei's name as the film's title being released in their state as Pulakesi II was a famous king who belonged to the Western Chalukyan Dynasty and ruled the Karnataka region in the seventh century. As a result of this, the film was banned in Karnataka." — Ssven2 speak 2 me 04:03, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Initially scheduled for release on 19 May 2006, Imsai Arasan 23rd Pulikecei was postponed twice...The film experienced delays in its release.
  • I made some copyedits, but it's not quite done. I'll be back in a few hours. Viriditas (talk) 06:12, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

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  • G. Dhananjayan states in his book, Best of Tamil Cinema, that the film was estimated to have collected INR 200 million worldwide,[22] whereas T. V. Mahalingam of Business Today states that the film grossed a worldwide box office collection of INR 150 million.[57]
  • There's very little paraphrasing in this section, only large quotations from critics. Try to figure out their most important points and find commonalities between them. Then, distill the main points and write about them in your own words. One or two large quotes may be fine, but we generally use blockquotes. WP:QUOTE and MOS:QUOTE cover the topic in full, but having an entire section of only quotes with no rhyme or reason to it is generally discouraged. So my advice is, decide what you want to talk about in this section, find aspects of the quotes that critics share in common or differ about, and start there. For more guidance, see WP:PARAPHRASE. Viriditas (talk) 11:38, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Viriditas: Paraphrased the critical response section. If there is further improvement to be done please do suggest it. — Ssven2 speak 2 me 04:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Please take a break from the article for at least 24 hours. I think a clear head with a refreshed view on the matter will help. Your recent edits appear to be a good start, but you introduced some issues in your haste. Take a break and come back to it. After all, the article is on hold now, and that gives you at least a week to work on it. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 07:18, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Ssven2: Take a look at User:Viriditas/sandbox2. Very briefly, I summarized many of the main points of the previous version. See if you can look at the previous version and structure it in a way that groups the content around these points and summarizes the critical reception in your own words. You don't have to do this now, but it might help if you do it in a sandbox page. There's no particular order to my list, so you may choose to move things around. Viriditas (talk) 20:53, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Viriditas: I have re-written the critical response section. — Ssven2 speak 2 me 04:19, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Ssven2: Thank you. I see improvements. How do you feel about the section? Do you believe it is improved? There's still a lot of unnecessary quoting going on, but it's certainly better than before. However, since I have your attention, I should point out some problems. The long quote attributed to Ananda Vikatan appears in slightly broken English and isn't very helpful. Also, whenever you quote, the citation must follow directly after. One way forward on this point, is to remove the quote in its entirety. If you think it is important to the article, then paraphrase its main points in your own words. Let's start there. When I read that quote, I immediately think it should be deleted. Perhaps it makes sense to you, but I don't understand what it is trying to say. Viriditas (talk) 06:03, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Viriditas: Yes. It has improved to a great extent with your suggestions I might say. I removed the quote itself. It looks better without it. — Ssven2 speak 2 me 07:42, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Ssven2: I think it is almost ready to pass now. I will read the section one more time and make a very small copyedit. Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I am sorry to say, but after reading it for the last time, my intended "small copyedit" turned into a major deletion and restructuring per my original comments on grouping like with like content up above.[3] I removed unnecessary and extraneous verbiage, adverbs and fluffy quotes that didn't provide any substance, and grouped like content with like as much as possible so that we don't read about the same thing in three different paragraphs. Critical reception sections should stick to specific, film-related criticisms and should avoid "two-thumbs up" and "five star" fluffy anecdotes that don't serve to advance the topic. You'll notice there is a structural narrative (however weak) to the section now. The first paragraph is more of a summary. The second paragraph focuses on critical reception of Chimbu Deven, including reception of his story and comedic elements. This includes the social messages embedded in the story by Deven. The third paragraph focuses on the reception to Vadivelu's performance, while the fourth and final paragraph covers the technical aspects of art direction, cinematography, and sound. Hopefully, you can see how this provides a skeleton for the critical reception, however rudimentary it might be. You are welcome to expand on this structure or to change it any way you want, but remember not to talk about the same thing in different paragraphs as before. Group like with like to create a consistent narrative approach. Viriditas (talk) 10:23, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the following from the Box office section:

Sri Lankan Cricketer Muttiah Muralitharan watched the film in Kamala Theatres in Chennai with his family on 11 July 2006.[1] He praised the film's innovative story, further saying that Vadivelu had developed a huge fan following in Sri Lanka through this film.[2]

I understand that some people might find this important, but I don't see where to put it. If someone wants to find a place other than the Box office section, please put it there. Viriditas (talk) 10:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Viriditas: Thanks for the editing. The Muttiah Muralitharan part might be good for the "Release" section as he attended a screening of the film. I have added it there. — Ssven2 speak 2 me 10:45, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Murali watches 'Imsai..'!". Sify. 12 July 2006. Archived from the original on 3 December 2014. Retrieved 3 December 2014. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  2. ^ "Muralitharan bowled over". The Hindu. 13 July 2006. Archived from the original on 3 December 2014. Retrieved 3 December 2014. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

Legacy

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Notes

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References

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Further reading

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  • Per WP:FURTHER, "This section is not intended as a repository for general references that were used to create the article content." There are various options here, but the most popular seems to be using a "Notes and references" and a "Sources" section. I'll make the change, but if you dislike it, feel free to revert it and we will discuss other options. Viriditas (talk) 21:48, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Notes", "References" and "Sources" now have separate sections. I want the article to follow the patterns of Tamil GAs, (first the notes, next the references and Bibliography/Sources being the last) —Ssven2 speak 2 me 03:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Criteria

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GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
    Lead: copyedits, uncited quote
    Plot: copyedits, Vasantha Sundari only mentioned at the end, no mention of torture
    Development: copyedits
    Casting: copyedits, restructure
    Filming: copyedits, fixed dab
    Themes and influences: copyedits, restructuring
    Music: copyedits
    Release: copyedits
    Reception: needs paraphrasing and structure
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
    WP:OVERLINK, WP:SEAOFBLUE: lead
    WP:FURTHER: not for references
    MOS:QUOTE, WP:QUOTE: reception
    WP:PARAPHRASE: reception
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. Has an appropriate reference section:
    B. Citations to reliable sources, where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    It passes, but at least one other editor raised concerns up above
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
    No edit wars
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    Question about poster source
    Answered above
    B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    Reception section needs to be rewritten and paraphrased, with a focus on topical structure and narrative. Viriditas (talk) 11:32, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    Current version passes GA criteria. See extensive notes in the "Reception" section up above. Thank you for your work on this article. Viriditas (talk) 10:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Avoid beginning a sentence with a number

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This was addressed in the GA review, but I am unsure if it was fixed or changed. In the plot section, I have changed 25 to twenty-five. As I said in the review, "spell out all numbers beginning a sentence", or put another way, "avoid beginning a sentence with a number that is not written out". Viriditas (talk) 21:46, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Viriditas: Possibly we might have overlooked it. Surely it wasn't changed. — Ssven2 speak 2 me 03:13, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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