Talk:Ira Mallory Remsen

Sources

Hello @Drmies: I appreciate you jumping into the editorial process, but the three sources you appear to have restored (tfaoi, Carmel Pine Cone, and the paid work-for-hire report) have been discussed at length both before and after the article creator's ban. In fact, we just had a discussion yesterday about tfaoi over at Talk:La Ribera Hotel. @Netherzone: perhaps you can help summarize these sources? Left guide (talk) 13:49, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No need to summarize--I followed your link and I'm reading over the material, Left guide--thanks. Netherzone, pardon my French, but what the hell kind of outfit is that? And did that Hazeldine guy write up that thing all by himself? Drmies (talk) 15:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think, in this case, it would be good to see if better sources can be found to verify the content. The source that REALLY [upper case for emphasis only] needs to go is the third one, it in fact points to Ancestry.com which is considered "unreliable" at RSP - WP:ANCESTRY, but it is listed as a reference to Johns Hopkins University instead of ancestry.com - "Ira Remsen Jr". Johns Hopkins University. Baltimore, Maryland, USA. 1895. Retrieved 2022-09-10 which has been a problematic citation pattern of the article creator.

I think TFAOI should not be used for the reasons spelled out at the other talk page.

I don't think The Carmel Pine Cone is a high quality source, because it is tabloid hyper-local should not be used for notability, but could be used to verify some content. (In general, I'm not crazy about the Pine Cone's over-use in these articles). It reported on everything that happened in that small town in the most glowingly fluffy terms.... On Thursday evening, lovely Mrs. XYZ, a 75 year old widow, lost her cat, Fluffy, at the corner of A street and 6th near an architecturally significant home that ABC the famous writer lived in up until last year, and was built by the highly respected builder Mr. LMNOP. The sweet and frightened cat, whose nickname was Fluff Ball according to neighbors, was was rescued by XYZ, a fearless, hard-working and kind firefighter who has been on on the force for 38 years.....you get the picture. I made that quote up of course, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't really think the Pine Cone is necessarily a neutral source, and it's content tends to be quite verbose.

The Heumann report was paid for by the city of Carmel so I don't think it's a great source to use. To my mind, when it comes to notability, the best sources to use for creative individuals including artists, writer, playwrights, architects etc. are fully independent secondary sources like top-notch art magazines, peer reviewed academic journals, and books by reliable publishers. Some primary sources can be used to verify some biographic content.

The problem I see here (in addition to using ancestry but cited as JHU) is the excessive detail and puffery, as well as too many long glowing quotations. I can help clean up some of that if other's agree. Remsen is notable, so that is not the problem, unencylopedic bloat is - at least to my eyes. Netherzone (talk) 15:17, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Drmies - I don't really know...it may all be copyvio published on his website. Or maybe part of a personal manuscript? It's perplexing! Netherzone (talk) 15:19, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Articles for deletion/All Saints Episcopal Church (Carmel-by-the-Sea, California) has some decent discussion about the other two sources in question: the paid work-for-hire report and Carmel Pine Cone. The community doesn't seem to think too highly of those sources, at least for Wikipedia's purposes. Left guide (talk) 15:26, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]