Talk:Islamic–Jewish relations

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BulbBAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Tag re Historical Interaction section[edit]

Planning to revise the Middle Ages section, under Historical interaction (2.1). This section is poorly written and maintains a POV bias in the middle ages section. It also doesn't use relevant secondary sources. I plan to incorporate the Cohen-Stillman debate into this source as a way to properly explore jewish and islamic relations during this time. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page. Matt458 (talk) 04:33, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

This section is quite poorly written (repetitive and poorly structured), but more importantly it contains a strong POV bias - primarily in the "Middle Ages" subsection. There is a similar debate open in the linked "main article". My observations are as follows (each of which can be easily sourced via WP:RS:

  • It does not make reference to Islamic Iraq's place as the world center of Judaism
  • It does not state that Jews held senior government positions in the main Islamic countries throughout the period
  • It does not state that European-style antisemitism was unknown in the Islamic countries until it was imported in the 19th century initially by the French (see Damascus affair)
  • The sentences "The notable examples of massacre of Jews include the killing or forcible conversion of them by the rulers of the Almohad dynasty in Al-Andalus in the 12th century.[38][39]....Most conversions were voluntary and happened for various reasons. However, there were some forced conversions in the 12th century under the Almohad dynasty of North Africa and al-Andalus as well as in Persia.[41]" are confused in tone - the first part is clear POV whilst the second appears more balanced. Neither however provide adequate context to explain the conversions (available in the articles about the incidents), with which it would imply a different story
  • The sentence "Notable examples of the cases where the choice of residence was taken away from them includes confining Jews to walled quarters (mellahs) in Morocco beginning from the 15th century and especially since the early 19th century.[40]" suggests European-style ghettoisation. The Mellah article itself suggests a very different story, as does the source added at Talk:Mellah.
  • The "Conversion of Muslims to Judaism" is overly simplistic, with incorrect sentences such as "Judaism does not proselytize". The article Proselytism#Judaism does a much more accurate job.

Oncenawhile (talk) 00:27, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

  • Most of Iraq's history as a center of Judaism predates Islam.
  • Jews did occasionally hold senior government positions in Islamic countries. You can add a few examples if you like.
  • European-style antimsemitism was indeed imported in the 19th century. Before that, they had their own version of what would today would be called antisemitism.
  • What different story do you think is implied by other articles regarding forced conversions?
  • What very different story do you think the Mellah article suggests?
  • Judaism has not proselytized since Hellenistic times. Except for maybe some individuals, few and far between. The sentence is not overly simplistic. The examples given in this article do not suggest proselytizing. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 01:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
In addition to notes from "Nice Guy," I think it should be added that in the Arabian

Peninsula, Jews were enjoying a "golden age" with the Himyarites (pagan empire), when along came Muhammad and killed the Madina Jews, including women and some of the kids. (The Quran and Hadiths from this era also are the source of many bigotries toward Jews by Muslims, to this day (as often cited by Muslim preachers themselves, in videotaped proof...) but of course you can't cite the Quran wholesale because it's a case of "history got written by the victors"; many THIRD PARTY authors -- Byzantines who were neutral (or at least equally bigoted against both Muslims and Jews) -- had also commented on this Muhammadan era in Arabian history.) (talk) 05:54, 3 October 2016 (UTC)


      It would help to add that the largest population of Jews in the Middle Ages lived in Muslim ruled Cordoba. Some figures should be in order.  Also add that Muslim rule in Cordoba helped incubate the Jewish Golden Age as the Golden Age of Cairo and the learning there made its way to the Iberian peninsula with all the new knowledge from the muslim thinkers and philosophers and scientists..Mamoides expounded upon Al Faribi and Avicennas work to bring rational thought into Judaism..  — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:01, 22 April 2015 (UTC) 

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