Talk:John of Montfort

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment Drives

Want to help write or improve biographies? Check out WikiProject Biography Tips for writing better articles. -- Yamara ✉ 03:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

France vs. England

This is really weird. The effect of the Hundred Years War and the Breton War of Succession still lives on between the French Wikipedia and the English Wikipedia. The French Wiki and the Wiki Commons all leave John of Montfort out of the numbering of Dukes of Brittany making his son John IV instead of John V and John V when referring to the English Wiki John VI. While the Enlgish Wiki counts this John as John IV and so on. The main reason is because England recognize John of Montfort as Duke of Brittany while France recognize Joanna as Duchess of Brittany. This seems a little bias, at least we should mention the differences in the numbering in each of John IV, John V and John VI articles.--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 10:35, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

John of Montfort is out of the numbering because there was no peace treaty in his lifetime, it was a civil war and nobody was duke of all the Bretons between 1341 and 1364.

State diplomacy is not history. The "English Wiki" is not supposed to support a 14th Century English point of view. The French Wiki does not include Joanna and her husband Charles de Blois amongst the dukes of Brittany, although the French monarchy recognized them as such. Patris22 (talk) 13:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree more with QE II Little Spy than Patris22. In the history of the Dukes of Brittany (see English language article Duchy of Brittany) Dukes (and Kings) of Brittany claimed the title and sometimes were recognized externally and sometimes not. Sometimes a leader was given the title Dux or Rex and the Bretons did not honor it, rebelled, and the title was empty. As it turns out in history, based on accepted law of the period, the King and peers of France in the Arret de Conflans (see the French article) accepted John IV as claimant subject to a juridical review, John IV lost the review and the Arret conferred the title of Duke on Joanna and her husband Charles of Blois, a relative of the French king. But meanwhile the English King recognized John IV as Duke of Brittany and Earl of Richmond (interestingly, Charles of Blois and Joanna never claimed the rights of the Earl of Richmond, titular or actual). There were two claimants to the Duchy. Just as in modern nobility there are now two Dukes of Anjou (one of the Orleanist pretenders to the French crown and that of the Legitimist pretenders to the French crown). The breton war of succession was fought to settle this dispute. The facts are more consistent with the first comments by QE II. Breizhtalk (talk) 14:09, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

This is interesting, although I don't really agree - but our own personal opinion cannot be accepted as a Wiki reference. This duke should not be numbered John IV in the English Wiki without references that English language scholars and history books call him with that name. Any references? But Michael Jones calls his son: John IV "Michael Jones, Ducal Brittany, 1364-1399: relations with England and France during the reign of Duke John IV" Patris22 (talk) 14:36, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Translation from French Page

Added and edited a translation of the French wikipedia page, and removed the header notification suggesting this.

Fromthemitten (talk) 02:06, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:John V, Duke of Brittany which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.
–Darius von Whaleyland, Great Khan of the Barbarian Horde 03:28, 31 October 2015 (UTC)